Owen Hughes - Hugh Hughes - Armagh - Coatbridge

[JessieJessie]

Thanks for the prompt response for help!  Our family has many original documents for Owen.  We have his British passport stating "tube worker, born Co Armagh, Ireland, 17 Mar 1886"; Petition for Naturalization with same d.o.b. and born Armagh;   Certificate of Naturalization which states former nationality British;  his death certificate from New York which says born Ireland, 17 Mar 1887, parents John and Mary Ann, wife Jessie; extract of Marriage to Jessie  in 1914 at All Saints in Airdrie, his address listed as Kippen St. in Airdrie, his parents John Hughes (whinstone quarryman) and mother Mary Ann Hughes m.s. McKenna (deceased).  There are no Hughes witnesses on the marriage papers.  Only a Henry Devenny and a sister of the bride.  I have a copy of the ship's manifest from his original trip to the US (found online).  He went to stay with someone named Andrew McShane in Pennsylvania, USA.  (His mother passed away when he was about 9 and he was supposedly sent to live with relatives for some time if that helps...)  Oddly his gravestone says dob was 1888.

Owen's family definitely seems to be the same family that moved to Scotland where he later met my grandmother. 

All the pieces seem to fit except for the fact that the family seemed to already be living in Scotland when he was born - not Armagh, Ireland. 

I am pleased to know that the names Hugh and Owen were used interchangeably.

Thanks to everyone.  I cannot believe how quickly people are trying to help.  I appreciate it more than you know!

Jessie

[scotmum]

Mary's death?

HUGHES
MARY
46
1895
652/2 354
Coatbridge or Old Monkland

What are the details on same....eg address, marital status, name of husband, names of parents?

[scotmum]

Is this the family you find in the Coatbridge area by 1891? All the children showing as born in Old Monkland. Like some with an Irish birth place as I can't easily see Scottish births so far for the older children:

Jns Hughes 47 Blast Furnace Man b. Ireland
Mary Hughes 46 b. Ireland
James Hughes 22
John Hughes 11
Edward Hughes 8
Hugh Hughes 5    
Francis Hughes 8 months
Francis Cullen 37 boarder
Robert Goodwin 40 Brother b. Bothwell, Lanarkshire 

Address: 10 South Row, Coatbridge

Monica

If above is correct family group (and just to note, that is quite a gap between James and  John), ie husband John Hughes, wife Mary McKenna, then this is possible birth for the son, James, in Lurgan district, County Armagh in 1868:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/8e790e7552888

and a marriage for John and Mary:

First name(s)   John
Last name   Hughes
Age   -
Marital status   Single
Marriage year   1866
Marriage date   06 May 1866
Marriage place   Lurgan, Armagh, Ireland
Father's first name(s)   James
Father's last name   Hughes
Mother's first name(s)   -
Mother's last name   -
Spouse's first name(s)   Mary
Spouse's last name   McKenna
Spouse's age   -
Spouse's birth year   1848
Spouse's birth date   1848
Spouse's birth place   -
Spouse's marital status   Single
Spouse's father's first name(s)   Hugh
Spouse's father's last name   Mckenna
Spouse's mother's first name(s)   -
Spouse's mother's last name   -
Residence   Ireland
Place   Lurgan

The above transcript of marriage details was found on FindMyPast, not yet seeing the Civil record.

Ok, the civil record is here:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/a2dc2d3137364

[scotmum]

Have you ruled out this Hugh Hughes birth in Scotland ?


HUGHES
HUGH
M
1885
652/2 694
Old Monkland (Middle District)

[Dundee]

That is the correct birth.

https://postimg.cc/Z0MjY59f

Debra 

[scotmum]

So, either the family group in 1891 Coatbridge are a red herring, with same/similar names and origins or, as is quite possible, the Owen/Hugh Hughes of the opening post, is the one born in Coatbridge and for whatever reason, used incorrect birth details and more or less stuck with those throughout his time in America.

Birthdays did not have as much importance placed on them as nowadays, with many not knowing their correct details. Years often vary in later documents, even day/month. 17th March, as in Owen/Hugh's case, if not his actual birthday, could have been chosen as an easy to remember significant day (ie St Patrick's). If he was, as you have suggested, brought up by extended family relatives, they could quite easily have forgotten which of John and Mary's children were born in County Armagh and which in Scotland, so unintentionally led Owen/Hugh to believe his birth was County Armagh, and also, if they had no access to his birth registration, may have been unsure of the day/month and misled him on this too.

You need to go step by step through your research again, cross referecing the various finds, and seeing if there is anything to rule out the Scottish born Hugh as being your Owen/Hugh, the obvious example being if you can find the Scottish born one still in Scottish records after your Owen/Hugh has emigrated.

.  (His mother passed away when he was about 9 and he was supposedly sent to live with relatives for some time if that helps...)   

In addition, consider that the 1901 census family group in Coatbridge,  posted earlier in this thread by Monica, which seems to possibly be the same family as in 1891, has  that Hugh still with his own father/siblings, albeit you only said your Owen/Hugh was sent to relatives for 'some time', so he could quite possibly have been back with parent/siblings when older.

You said your Owen/Hugh married in Coatbridge in 1914, so do you have him in 1911 census? Certainly, as you will know, he was already using Owen at time of his December 1914 (registered in January 1915) marriage:

BENNETT
JESSIE

HUGHES
OWEN

1915
651/ 13
Airdrie or New Monkland

[scotmum]

Ah, assuming you are the same Jessie who has been updating attached, I realise now you already have the Irish marriage details for a John Hughes and Mary McKenna in Lurgan district, the birth details for a James Hughes in Lurgan district etc https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LCV6-QN8. This wasn't entirely clear earlier, hence why others and myself were looking for them. Reading back, I now think you also already had the 1885 Scottish birth record for Hugh Hughes that Dundee kindly posted yesterday evening (I'm assuming they found it on the Ancestry tree they linked to in an earlier post - when they asked if it was your tree but didn't receive confirmation - but unfortunately, not all of us can see trees/documents on Ancestry as we do not have active subscription).

Intended as a helpful comment and hopefully taken as such - it is always useful to make it very clear in your opening post, details of relevant documents you already hold/are aware of, which save others spending time looking for what you already  have (ie duplication of effort), and lets them concentrate, instead, on trying to figure out the next avenues of resarch.  It is also useful to affirm or negate, suggestions being made by those trying to help, to avoid, as Gaffy so clearly pointed out very early on, red herrings. A few of us were, as Gaffy said at time, "struggling to discern from your post, the information you know is robust, from that which may be more speculative".

[JessieJessie]

Monica L,
Yes, I do have the marriage info for the couple that I believe to be his parents, John Hughes and Mary McKenna in Lurgan, Armagh in 1866, but I cannot figure out why all of his documents state that he was born in Ireland if he was born in Scotland. So I am trying to definitively link Hugh from that family and my grandfather Owen together as the same person. Thanks for helping.  By the way, I am trying to reply to each message in the thread but am having a bit of trouble maneuvering the site. 
Gratefully,
Jessie

[JessieJessie]

Oh my gosh! This message from Debra is incredible! 

               "That is the correct birth.

                https://postimg.cc/Z0MjY59f

                Debra 

I had not seen this birth record.  I think that it clearly proves that all of my grandfather's documents are incorrect.  He was born in Scotland rather than Ireland!  And even the date is different.  I am puzzled about why he did this!  Perhaps after his mother died - so did the accurate information?!?!

I have been unable to find his Irish record of birth and now know why! I think that it is safe to say that Owen and Hugh are the same person if the names of the parents are almost exactly same Mary/Mary Ann and John) and the year of birth is very close.  On this document, it states that his mother was from Co Armagh where my grandfather always claimed to have been born.

Debra and others helping me, thank you, thank you, thank you! 

Jessie