John Henry Sheen born Q3 1866 Greenwich

[Cockneyrebel]

Actually, Sandra I couldn't find Elizabeth's death so didn't see what you saw? Thank you anyway for finding her death.
Cr

[*Sandra*]

Yes, Sandra, I can see the gravestone photo but not the details about him?
I've ordered the marriage cert for John and Gertrude.
Cr

"You see what I see" is in reply to this text John.

Sandra

[PaulineJ]

I guess jonw65 I'll have to get the marriage certificate for John & Gertrude to see if it will enlighten us.
Cr

Almost certainly the Gertrude from the Sheen family unit given the whole household in 1901.

Pauline

[Cockneyrebel]

Again will have to wait and see what Gertrude's actual mmn was.
Cr

[Cockneyrebel]

I've received the marriage cert and the mystery remains, they married 3/10/1887 at St Stephen's church, Lewisham, as John Henry Sheen and Gertrude Carter both aged 21 and single, John was a paper hanger and Gertrude a domestic servant.
John lived at 12 Claremont Terrace and Gertrude at 62 Cressingham Road.
Now the mystery, John's father was recorded as John Henry Sheen, paper hanger, and Gertrude's father as John Carter, a Mariner.
Seems to me that I've got the wrong John Henry Sheen as my one was the son of John Sheen a labourer and RC?
Presumably, the 2 children belong to another J H Sheen?
Cr

[jonw65]

There is a marriage in 1900 in Deptford of Alfred William Sheen, 21, father John Henry Sheen (deceased), Decorator. Spouse Louisa Elizabeth Jackson, father John William Jackson, Bricklayer.

They might be in Deptford in 1901, in the same house as her parents.
piece 524 folio 82 page 18
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X98K-YLG

Birth?
March 1878 Greenwich 1d 979
Sheen, Alfred William       

Need to find him in the new index!

In 1881 in Lewisham there is
Henry Sheen 35 Paperhanger
Elinor Sheen 36
children including
Henry Sheen 15
Alfred Sheen 4
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q277-ZRGX

All born Greenwich except youngest Florence, 1, born Lewisham (mother Saweard)

SHEEN, HENRY  JOHN     
Mother's Maiden Surname: SAWEARD 
GRO Reference: 1868  S Quarter in GREENWICH  Volume 01D  Page 754

Henry junior seems to have joined the Army Service Corps in August 1889.
Age 21, Painter, born Greenwich.
But says he is not married, next of kin are parents Henry and Ellen.
The record goes up to 1892, then says Recalled to Army Service, but I can't read any more.
Is in the WO363 burnt records for WW1, but also in WO97 (don't have access, presumably much the same?)

Meanwhile, the rest of family in Lewisham in 1891, as Sheer.
Head of family Henry is a House Decorator
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q32F-CT2

Could HJ have married as JH and run away from Gertrude not long after?
Better suggestions welcome!

[jonw65]

Presumably, the 2 children belong to another J H Sheen?

It seems so, but there was quite a gap between the two.

[Cockneyrebel]

I'm of the opinion that John H who married Gertrude is not my relation as I originally thought especially as the certificate shows his father as John H whereas mine's father was just John an RC labourer. The one that went to Canada and married in an RC church seems much more likely.
Cr

[jonw65]

Hi
Yes, and he was mentioned in Edward's army record as being in Canada.
Sorry about that, it's a pity the Sheen-Carter marriage wasn't online, and you had to order it.
It was quite a mystery though, is it possible the chap could turn out to be a more distant relative?
John