Author Topic: Trying to decipher whether this says Italy or something else  (Read 327 times)

Offline hmcniven

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Trying to decipher whether this says Italy or something else
« on: Monday 14 June 21 17:30 BST (UK) »
My great grandmother (Eleanor Blanche Robbins nee Hope? b. 1847) seems to have a different place of birth in almost every census I find her in, and I am certain they are all her. In the 1851 and 1861 Census, she is from "Lambeth, Surrey" to parents William Hope and Eleanor Angel; in the 1881 Census she is from "Kensington, Middlesex". However, in the 1871 Census, it looks to me like it says "Italy" in place of birth.  I've attached a picture below; see under 'Whitechapel'. I'd be extremely grateful for some opinions on what that could possibly say. According to my granny, she always said to me that this particular great grandmother was a 'Spanish widow'. She married a Henry William Booth King, who died not long after they got married. She then remarried William Robbins (my great grandfather). I keep expecting to find Spanish or even Italian heritage on this side of the family in London, but I keep unravelling and I'm just getting more confused. I found pretty strong records that Eleanor Blanche Hope is the daughter of William Nelson Hope from Ramsgate, Kent and Eleanor (Helena) Angel Edwardes from Wilmington, Kent. When I've looked into her parents' backgrounds I don't see anything that points me to any Spanish or Italian roots. I suppose since Ramsgate is a port town it wouldn't be unheard of for travel into that area. Any help will be greatly appreciated! 

Offline josey

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Re: Trying to decipher whether this says Italy or something else
« Reply #1 on: Monday 14 June 21 20:06 BST (UK) »
Struggling to find a capital 'I' in adjacent pages of the census [Piece: 205 Folio: 18 Page: 28] but I suspect it would be more florid; and place of birth starts with what compares with other 'H' see Hereford at bottom of page but does seem to end in 'ly'.

She was baptised in St Mary's Lambeth
Name:   Eleanor Blanch Hope
Baptism Date:   10 Feb 1847
Baptism Place:   St Mary's, Lambeth, Surrey, England
Father:   William Hope
Mother:   Eleanor Angel

Do take family stories as just that till proven - I was always told I had a Spanish forebear, but so far none found back to 1750 & further in some lines!!

ADDED: Welcome to rootschat BTW   :)
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline arthurk

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Re: Trying to decipher whether this says Italy or something else
« Reply #2 on: Monday 14 June 21 20:14 BST (UK) »
I agree with josey - the first letter is most similar to the writer's 'H', which seems to give Hily - wherever that might be.

The nearest examples of a capital 'I' that I found were:
3 pages back - an Isabella (schedule 143)
2 pages forward - Ireland (schedule 191)

In both cases the 'I' is of the style with a loop at the top, rather than a simple straight line as it would be if this was Italy.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Rhododendron

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Re: Trying to decipher whether this says Italy or something else
« Reply #3 on: Monday 14 June 21 20:22 BST (UK) »
Could it be Huby??? 


Offline Karen McDonald

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Re: Trying to decipher whether this says Italy or something else
« Reply #4 on: Monday 14 June 21 21:41 BST (UK) »
Welcome to RC!  :)

Looking at (Hereford?) lower down, it could indeed start with "H". Rhodo's suggestion of Huby is a good possibility - but a long way from London.

As regards "Spanish widow": Maybe your gran didn't mean literally of Spanish descent, but perhaps this here:

http://mythfolklore.blogspot.com/2014/07/heptameron-spanish-widow.html

Best regards,
Karen


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Offline shanreagh

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Re: Trying to decipher whether this says Italy or something else
« Reply #5 on: Monday 14 June 21 21:51 BST (UK) »
I suspect that the phrase 'Spanish widow' id s not a description of ancestry but of marital status and what happens after the death of a husband/or remarriage after an early spousal death or similar.   I have it in my mind that it originated with or is some thing to do with the times of Lord Nelson but may be wrong.