Author Topic: James Nathaniel Shuttleworth - Date of Death  (Read 2369 times)

Online Neale1961

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Re: James Nathaniel Shuttleworth - Date of Death
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 16 June 21 11:17 BST (UK) »
The 1828 census has James Shuttleworth per Mangles at King George Sound. So he was still being useful in West Australia.
Milligan - Jardine Glencross Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark Faulds Cuthbertson Bryson Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
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Offline majm

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Re: James Nathaniel Shuttleworth - Date of Death
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 16 June 21 11:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Neville,

I have a question  re James per the Mangles arriving 1820. 

 :) what document actually confirms that the chap who arrived per the Mangles was the one who married Mary Ann LEWIS in 1851? Civil registration of bdm events in NSW did not commence until 1856, so there's often only scant info on those Early Church Records (the 'V' series) that predate the civil process.

JM

 
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Offline sparrett

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Re: James Nathaniel Shuttleworth - Date of Death
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 16 June 21 12:18 BST (UK) »
In the pages of the diary by Major Lockyer linked for our interest in Reply #18 from majm, the author refers very often to the "carpenters", members of his group of prisoners sent to build and establish......
So James the carpenter fits well there.

Sue

ADDING
It looks as if it would be a good start to purchase a certificate or two in reference to  the husband of Mary LEWIS.
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Offline NevilleTB

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Re: James Nathaniel Shuttleworth - Date of Death
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 16 June 21 13:12 BST (UK) »
Working backwards on the recent comments:
- I have seen the Tasmanian James. He actually was sentenced to life. Don't think he is clouding the situation.
- Maybe a carpenter, but I have his name working on an iron gang in Woolloomooloo in 1841. Probably a labourer. Unless of course, it was one of his namesakes.
- The comment from MAJM re do we have the right person. Maybe not. We know James was married to Mary Ann, but it is worth thinking that it may have been a different person to the one that came out on the Mangles.
- Re the 1928 census having him in WA, that was a long time before he married Mary Ann (1851). Maybe he was there with another wife. Either Mary Muirhead or the mysterious Hannah.
- Neal 1961 talked about the Tasmanian one again. Covered that in the first point.
Sparratt makes the point that he used Nathaniel to register his son. Done lots of searches using all sorts of name confirmations. Not come up with anything to date.

At this stage I am going to bed and sleep on it. Maybe some clarity tomorrow.

Offline majm

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Re: James Nathaniel Shuttleworth - Date of Death
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 16 June 21 13:45 BST (UK) »
This chap could be the chap who arrived per the Mangles  in 1820 and who went to King George's Sound in 1826 and who returned to NSW and then married Mary Muirhead  .... but then again nothing on the parish register for his 1851 burial gives any confidence in that thought, and .... well...  I have not found any NSW baptisms for any children of that marriage.

1851 - several chaps in NSW by the name of James SHUTTLEWORTH.

Camperdown Cemetery
James Shuttleworth of Market Street (JM notes this is still a street in the CBD of Sydney), died 16 March 1851.  Cause of death : Extravastation of Urine.  He was aged 52 years, he died at the Infirmary.  He was buried 18 March 1851. 

Index:
http://gutenberg.net.au/camperdownNSW/_namelist-deathdateorder.html
ID no. 1020.

JM

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Offline matthewj64

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Re: James Nathaniel Shuttleworth - Date of Death
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 16 June 21 20:40 BST (UK) »
...
- Maybe a carpenter, but I have his name working on an iron gang in Woolloomooloo in 1841. Probably a labourer. Unless of course, it was one of his namesakes.
...

This information is from the New South Wales, Australia, Gaol Description and Entrance Books, Sydney 1837-41 and shows him imprisoned in 1841 whilst awaiting trial, after which he is put on an iron gang as punishment. Note that his trade is Carpenter. His trade on arrival as a convict is Calico Printer, one of the tickets of leave has it as Calico Printer and Carpenter, the 1830 Convict Application for the Publication of Banns with Mary Muirhead says 'works as a journeyman carpenter for himself'

M

ADD - Trial date April 7 1841, guilty of larceny, 12 calendar months in irons

Offline majm

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Re: James Nathaniel Shuttleworth - Date of Death
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 16 June 21 22:55 BST (UK) »
Re the 1851 marriage for Mary Ann LEWIS....  how is her husband described on the parish register.... widower or bachelor? What occupation,  did he sign, and any numbers written near his signature? ....(sometimes the age of each party was written in that white space near the signatures).

PS, yes Iron Gangs often used as secondary punishment in penal NSW era.

JM
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Offline majm

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Re: James Nathaniel Shuttleworth - Date of Death
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 16 June 21 23:11 BST (UK) »
Umm

Thete are at least six baptisms in Lancashire between 1798 and 1806 for James SHUTTLEWORTH and there are chaps with that name 'Y' (of the county) in Lancs on the UK 1841 census. 

I think we need to check if our OP has confirmed if he descends from Mary Ann LEWIS' 1851 marriage

JM
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Offline majm

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Re: James Nathaniel Shuttleworth - Date of Death
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 16 June 21 23:53 BST (UK) »
Re Mary Ann and the possiblity of the surname being changed to Shattles...

The funeral announcements in 1915 are in the surname SHATTLES.  The funeral moved from her daughter's residence, 2 Cardigan St, Auburn NSW.

Sands 1915 Alpha directory has Mrs F Dunlop at that address.

The NSW d c. (or official transcription) should have sufficient family history info to confirm the 1851 marriage and name the children of that marriage to help sort the change of surname. Alternatively, the NSW marriage registrations for any of those children should name both their parents and give their dad's occupation.

JM

The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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