Author Topic: Help with Latin in Manor Court Roll  (Read 367 times)

Offline sunnylew

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Help with Latin in Manor Court Roll
« on: Monday 21 June 21 00:28 BST (UK) »
Could someone please help me with a word in this roll?

From what I can make out, it means something like:

Which said eastern end of the said Cottage the said Nicholas Harris ?and (?quedu) Anne Martin, Widow, took up as heirs after the death of Nicholas Reeve deceased, being coheirs of the said Nicholas at a Court held 5th Apr 33 Ch II (1681).

The full page can be found here:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DR99-K6N?i=848&cat=416138

(It's just by the dot half way down in the margin)

I'm not sure what "Quedu.." means, but think it may be important, as the Anne Martin mentioned here is not part of the Surrender in this transaction.

My guess is that she got the Western end of the cottage, but I don't really know.

Cheers,

Lewis
Anything in Hethersett, Norfolk
Buckenham and Variants in Norfolk and Suffolk.
Goodlad in Suffolk.
Palmer in Birmingham

Offline horselydown86

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,431
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with Latin in Manor Court Roll
« Reply #1 on: Monday 21 June 21 05:05 BST (UK) »
I think this word is qued(a)m, which is more commonly found in lexicons as quaedam.

It's usually used to introduce a person of some, but not primary, significance to the matter:

...the said Nicholas Harris & a certain Anna Martins widow...

Quaedam is fem. nom. sing., which fits grammatically.

Offline sunnylew

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Re: Help with Latin in Manor Court Roll
« Reply #2 on: Monday 21 June 21 05:50 BST (UK) »
Thank you Horselydown86.

That makes a bit more sense to me now :)

Anything in Hethersett, Norfolk
Buckenham and Variants in Norfolk and Suffolk.
Goodlad in Suffolk.
Palmer in Birmingham

Offline horselydown86

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,431
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with Latin in Manor Court Roll
« Reply #3 on: Monday 21 June 21 07:46 BST (UK) »
I just took a look at the next bit.  I think it might be:

                            ...vidua h(ab)uer(unt) et

sursu(m) ceper(unt) sibi & heredib(us) suis jure hereditario...


Roughly translated:

                                 ...widow did hold and

take up to themselves and their heirs by right of inheritance...



DISCLAIMER:  I may have some contracted endings wrong.

CORRECTION:

Typo corrected.


Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,912
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with Latin in Manor Court Roll
« Reply #4 on: Monday 21 June 21 10:01 BST (UK) »
My guess is that she got the Western end of the cottage, but I don't really know.

No, she originally held the eastern end ...

Q(ue)m quid(e)m orientalem finem
d(i)c(t)i Cottagij d(i)c(t)us Nich(ola)us Harris & qued(a)m Anna Martins vidua h(ab)uer(unt)


I agree with quedam for Anna Martins, not to be confused with quidem in the line above (an invariable adverb, meaning ‘indeed’, ‘in fact’).

Offline sunnylew

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Re: Help with Latin in Manor Court Roll
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 22 June 21 01:14 BST (UK) »
Hi Bookbox,

I was actually thinking that Ann may have had the western end as I couldn't see any Surrender from her, so thought maybe they had each taken half of the cottage, Nicholas taking the East and Ann taking the West.

I've since gone back to their Admission, and the whole thing is a bit of a tangle, with Nicholas and Ann inheriting moieties of each side of the cottage as heirs of Nicholas Reeve Snr, who'd initially split the cottage 20 years previous between two of his sisters, then to his own right heirs.

Anyway, I guess that's the fun of research. I'll have to wait in anticipation for what else crops up as I work my way through the records :)
Anything in Hethersett, Norfolk
Buckenham and Variants in Norfolk and Suffolk.
Goodlad in Suffolk.
Palmer in Birmingham