Apprenticeships & Duty Registers - was the duty always paid & other thoughts

[melba_schmelba]

Given I can only find a small fraction of my ancestors on the Apprenticeship Duty Registers (1710-1811), does that suggest that either only a small fraction survive, and/or lots of masters somehow avoided paying it? Obviously, I know a lot of people were never apprenticed in the first place i.e. if they were farmer's sons and were expected to inherit a farm or help out labouring.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/1851/

I was also wondering about how much we know about how the apprenticeships were arranged - i.e. would the child have any input into the choice, or would it be a case of the parents found a place and that was that? From looking at the City of London guild apprenticeships (listed in the Freedom of London records on Ancestry https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/2052/ ), I know apprentices were sometimes  signed over to a new master in a completely different company so that presumably may be a case where the child might have not any input into the choice and was so bored/miserable, they asked to be moved?

Lastly, does anyone know if the apprenticeship records of other towns and cities are indexed and available online, or in printed book form as the London ones are?

[horselydown86]

Given I can only find a small fraction of my ancestors on the Apprenticeship Duty Registers (1710-1811), does that suggest that either only a small fraction survive, and/or lots of masters somehow avoided paying it?

Apprenticeships arranged through a charity seem to have been exempt from duty.

Also, I'm pretty sure that parish apprenticeships - where a parish sent a child into service to remove them from their Poor Law relief burden - were not recorded under the same legislation as proper vocational apprenticeships.

I was also wondering about how much we know about how the apprenticeships were arranged - i.e. would the child have any input into the choice, or would it be a case of the parents found a place and that was that?

Many family connections can be found between apprentices and their masters.

I have also found associations between towns and certain Livery Companies.  My ancestor and his brother were among several boys from Great Marlow in Bucks who were apprenticed into the Wheelwrights' Company over the course of the C18th.

From looking at the City of London guild apprenticeships (listed in the Freedom of London records on Ancestry https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/2052/ ), I know apprentices were sometimes  signed over to a new master in a completely different company so that presumably may be a case where the child might have not any input into the choice and was so bored/miserable, they asked to be moved?

Most of these were due to the death of the first master.  However a significant proportion were due to a professional failing by the master - they were a hopeless drunk or otherwise did not properly instruct the apprentice or in one case I know of had simply omitted to enroll the apprentice with the City.

Whether many of these were initiated by the apprentice is hard to say.  If the father had influence in the Guildhall then perhaps it was possible.

Court records can be found involving apprentices who deserted their master because they hated them or the work.

[Rena]

I believe there was no tax to pay if a family member trained an apprentice.. 

I have generations of father and son farriers in Yorkshire, surname Askin, and the sons are not included in any apprentice list.  Neither are the blacksmiths up in Lanarkshire, Scotland on any apprentice lists.  The surname is Mackenzie and I know one shareholder of the company was a Mackenzie but I have not found any family link with the M'kenzie apprentice.

[coombs]

I have some ancestors who were subject to a settlement examination and it says "they were bound apprentice to" and there is no official record in the list of duties paid, which must mean it was a parish apprenticeship, arranged by the parish.

My ancestor John Newman was subject to a 1782 settlement examination in Rochford, and it says he was once bound apprentice to Joseph Turner of Southminster, cordwainer, and they agreed to part after 4 years. Joseph Turner was John's uncle William Newman's stepson, William was an innkeeper.

If a family member took on an apprentice, even if they did not have to pay tax, I thought it would count as a parish apprenticeship at least.

[melba_schmelba]

Thanks everyone for your replies  . Parish/poor law apprenticeships not being taxable definitely makes sense, and would probably account for quite a lot of the apprenticeships that occurred I imagine. Regarding parent child apprenticeships not being taxable, I think I have found a few examples in the duty register lists where the father was the master, but still duty was paid. I suppose it might be that it was easier to get away with not paying in this case. I am not sure what sort of tax inspector system existed back in those days.
  I definitely agree that one should consider that there might be a familial connection with the master - I recently found that an uncle was an apprentice, on the mother's side (which was not immediately apparent), which eventually enabled me to trace ancestral lines back to the 1400s!
     An interesting idea that there might be a link between certain towns or areas and certain London guilds, horselydown. I suppose there were certain areas known for producing certain things like boots and shoes in Leicester, steel and cutlery in Sheffield, pottery in Derbyshire, gun making in Birmingham etc. I am always surprised, browsing through the London guild records, from how far away a lot of the apprenticeships came from.
  I have found this very detailed guide on the London Lives site which reflects a lot of what you have said, it seems there are apprentice records surviving for various parishes, and also from the 1760s, there was a register of children in parish care under the age of four, and also up to 14, from 1767 which included a Register of Parish Apprentices, but that excluded (for reasons that are not clear) most of the City of London parishes and for Westminster parishes.

https://www.londonlives.org/static/Apprentices.jsp

[spendlove]

Just in case you have not read, this is connection to National Archives Apprentices and masters

 https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/apprentices-and-masters/

Spendlove

[melba_schmelba]

Just in case you have not read, this is connection to National Archives Apprentices and masters

 https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/apprentices-and-masters/

Spendlove

Thanks Spendlove!