Roman Catholic marriage original certs, Paddington

[chris_49]

I first broached this on a thread on the Irish board, to which I added a question this morning, but no reply yet so I thought I'd try here as it concerns an English catholic marriage record.

My great uncle Robert Francis Davies married Elizabeth Nolan, known to be Irish, on St Valentines Day 1928 at St Mary of the Angels R.C, Bayswater, London. Everything fits - both fathers' names and occupations, his occupation.

My cousin has now sent this, his grandparents' GRO marriage certificate to the Irish government to try to obtain citizenship,  but the people there are saying they need to see the "original". Of course the original is long lost, but will they accept the version provided by the registration district, to wit Paddingtion (now part of Westminster)?

I went to the Westminster borough site, but it says "We do not hold any original Roman Catholic registers. However we do hold transcripts of various registers", so no use either. So who has the originals? Westminster directed me to the Catholic Family History Society, but that  merely redirected me to http://catholicfhs.co.uk/?z which is a blank page.

Can anybody help?

And has anybody else found that a GRO copy of a certificate has been deemed insufficient evidence by anybody for any reason whatever? (I'm reminded of those "birthers" for whom Barack Obama's Hawaiian birth record was "insufficient proof"). 

[AntonyMMM]

There is no such thing as an "original certificate". You might find a certificate issued on the day of the event, which is as close as you can get but that doesn't make it the original document (and most will have been long lost anyway).

The only original document is the actual register entry and all certificates, whether issued by the local registration office, or GRO, are certified copies of that entry and should be sufficient for any legal purpose.

I wrote a report that was used recently (and successfully) as evidence for an Irish citizenship application and that included a number of GRO certificates, with no issues raised at all over them.

[chris_49]

There is no such thing as an "original certificate". You might find a certificate issued on the day of the event, which is as close as you can get but that doesn't make it the original document (and most will have been long lost anyway).

The only original document is the actual register entry and all certificates, whether issued by the local registration office or GRO, are certified copies of that entry and should be sufficient for any legal purpose.

I wrote a report that was used recently (and successfully) as evidence for an Irish citizenship application and that included a number of GRO certificates, with no issues raised at all over them.

Thank you Anthony. I thought as much. So the lady at the Irish Government is asking for something that is impossible? I'll let my cousin know, and if they still prove obdurate can you let me have details of that report?

[AntonyMMM]

I can't give details of the report, it is confidential to my client, but they should accept a GRO certificate with no problem at all.

The original register entry will be at Westminster Registration Office, and possibly another one at the church itself, if they kept their own RC register.

[chris_49]

I can't give details of the report, it is confidential to my client, but they should accept a GRO certificate with no problem at all.

The original register entry will be at Westminster Registration Office, and possibly another one at the church itself, depending on whether the church had an authorised person to register marriages at that time, or if they required a registrar to attend.

Oh, I thought from your first post that you might have encountered this problem and solved it. You're right that they "should" accept the GRO cert, but this lady has said it's insufficient, and you know how obdurate bureaucrats can be when they've made a decision, however wrong. I'll tell my cousin to have another go, but if that doesn't work it means a Westminster trip.

I may contact the church - it has a website but no mention of registers. At least it wasn't bombed!
 

[AntonyMMM]

All Westminster registration office can do is supply another certified copy, which is no more/less valid than the GRO one ....

if the church did keep its own register it is also possible that may now be deposited with the diocesan archive (in Kensington)