Author Topic: Irish Christian name TURET, does it exist?  (Read 4489 times)

Offline Rena

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Re: Irish Christian name TURET, does it exist?
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 22 June 21 14:12 BST (UK) »
Did the Irish use the given name "Doret" which I've seen once or twice whilst surfing and thought it was unusual.  Apparently it's French origin and means "gold"
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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Irish Christian name TURET, does it exist?
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 22 June 21 14:12 BST (UK) »

So I'm wondering what this enumerator heard twice (in a heavy Irish accent), which he wrote down as Turet?


Information in a census enumerator's book was transcribed from household census returns. He copied what was written on each form, deciphering many different hands. It was the responsibility of each householder to complete a return for his/her household. Another member of the household might have filled in a return if a householder couldn't write. If nobody in the household could write or if the household didn't possess pen & ink, someone outside the household may have been asked to do it.
Cowban

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Re: Irish Christian name TURET, does it exist?
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 22 June 21 14:39 BST (UK) »
Yes they do look like ĎTuretí.

Delia is also an alternative for Bridget but itís not that.

The son of one, I think Michael Rice, was supposedly born in Blackburn abt 1841 but I canít see a relevant birth or census entry.

Heywood
Many thanks for looking :-)

I think I have a clue...
I've found Irish baptisms of children (gender unknown) with similar-sounding first names e.g.
Terit Bohan (baptised Co. Galway) [Bohan is the surname]
Teread Driscoll (bapt. 1929 Cork)
Territt Ellard (bapt 1892 Kildare)

...also I've found other first names in Ireland (mainly) with these spellings: Tarret, Terud, Turid, Torodd, Tyred, Teread and many more.

Someone's suggested the "Turet" is a surname used as a first name (which is common practice where I am = Durham, e.g. "Richardson Watson").

If so, that surname could be Tyrwhitt or similar... and what we're struggling with is the writer's rendition as TURET (which is what they believed they heard). However it would be quite a coincidence to have TWO such unusual Christian names in close-living families, wouldn't it? unless these dock labourers' wives were from the same town in Ireland where the name was common, and were lodging in adjacent houses in Seaham...   

What are your thoughts?
D

guest259648

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Re: Irish Christian name TURET, does it exist?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 22 June 21 14:43 BST (UK) »
Did the Irish use the given name "Doret" which I've seen once or twice whilst surfing and thought it was unusual.  Apparently it's French origin and means "gold"

Rena, thank you...
I was wondering about 'Dorritt' too, or similar...
I don't know if the Irish use Doret, I will have a look :-)


guest259648

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Re: Irish Christian name TURET, does it exist?
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 22 June 21 14:50 BST (UK) »

So I'm wondering what this enumerator heard twice (in a heavy Irish accent), which he wrote down as Turet?


Information in a census enumerator's book was transcribed from household census returns. He copied what was written on each form, deciphering many different hands. It was the responsibility of each householder to complete a return for his/her household. Another member of the household might have filled in a return if a householder couldn't write. If nobody in the household could write or if the household didn't possess pen & ink, someone outside the household may have been asked to do it.

Maiden Stone
Thank you for correcting me.
So the enumerator always worked from a hand-written document - which was originally written by the householder (ideally), but otherwise by anyone who could do the job!

Looking at the 1850s housing conditions of many of these families, I think pen & ink would be in very short supply, even if they knew how to write.
Which suggests that maybe a local (non-Irish) person may have filled in the document on some occasions, again with the challenge of working out what the Irish were saying.

There's a good book available called "When Paddy met Geordie" - it's based on someone's thesis and deals with religion, not language, but I bet it took some generations before these people could fully understand what the other was saying:-)


Offline iluleah

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Re: Irish Christian name TURET, does it exist?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 22 June 21 15:13 BST (UK) »
Apart from the enumerator writing down what he thought he heard or a transcription error when they were later transcribed onto the census forms we view...my first thought was Bernadette...yet I know it is not a 'normal' nickname/shortened version for the name it could be a 'nickname' from childhood that stuck and was used

What I would do if my family is check out extended family to see if it is a maiden surname being used as a first/middle name, (lots of families used their middle name as their given name) so an old surname even a poorly/wrongly spelt one and check out what names were given to children in the extended family....
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Irish Christian name TURET, does it exist?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 22 June 21 15:20 BST (UK) »

 what we're struggling with is the enumerator's rendition as TURET (which is what he believed he heard). However it would be quite a coincidence to have TWO such Christian names in close-living families, unless these wives were from the same town in Ireland where the name was common, lodging in adjacent houses in Seaham...
 

The enumerator may not have heard the name at all. He may have been merely transcribing the name from household returns. The rendition of the name in the enumerator's book may have been at 2nd or 3rd remove, depending on who gave information to whom and who wrote it down. See my previous post.
Two families from the same place in Ireland lodging in the same street is quite likely. It made sense to go where you knew people who could help you find work and lodging and provide a support network in difficult times. I was looking at an old class photo from my primary school last week. From my own family history research I know that the surname of one boy was common in my GF's area. My parents were friends with his mother. Quickly tracing that boy's line back, I discovered they came from my GF's district. Looking at baptisms of his family in a town near my home, I noticed a godparent with same surname as my GGM, my GF's mother.   

 
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Irish Christian name TURET, does it exist?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 22 June 21 15:31 BST (UK) »

So the enumerator always worked from a hand-written document - which was originally written by the householder (ideally), but otherwise by anyone who could do the job!

Looking at the 1850s housing conditions of many of these families, I think pen & ink would be in very short supply, even if they knew how to write.
Which suggests that maybe a local (non-Irish) person may have filled in the document on some occasions, again with the challenge of working out what the Irish were saying.


Not always. There is no "always". It would have depended on individual circumstances. Responsibility for completing a household return and ensuring information on it was correct was the householder's.
If the people concerned were from the West of Ireland it's possible that English was the second language of some of them.   
Cowban

Offline heywood

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Re: Irish Christian name TURET, does it exist?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 22 June 21 16:32 BST (UK) »
Consideration perhaps?

There is an entry in 1861 - still Seaham Harbour

1861 3748 /25/58

John Rice 50yrs
Catherine 25 yrs

Your John was 50 in 1851.

Marriage June quarter 1856 Easington
John Rice and Catherine Wynne

Death March quarter 1856
Julia Rice 60yrs

ĎTuretí Rice was 40 yrs in 1851

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