Author Topic: Assistance With Birth Location And Name Please  (Read 762 times)

Offline Wexflyer

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Assistance With Birth Location And Name Please
« on: Wednesday 23 June 21 00:33 BST (UK) »
The attached extract is from an 1879 marriage registration in New South Wales.
The bride was Margaret Hastings, age 19, born in Ireland.
Two questions:
1. Where was she born? Says "Kilkeen", but that must be a distorted version of somewhere.
2. What is the Christian name of her father?

Thanks in advance.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens; CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter; COSGRAVE Castlebridge; CULLEN Lady's Island (LI); CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic; DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack; EDWARDS Wex; FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown; HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex; McGILL Litter; MORRIS Forth Commons; PIERCE LI; POTTS Bennettstown; REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit; SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wex; SMYTH Gerry/Oulart; WALSH Kilrane/Wex

Offline Dundee

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Re: Assistance With Birth Location And Name Please
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 23 June 21 03:34 BST (UK) »
There are civil registrations from 1864 in Kilkee, County Clare for children to a Sinon HASTINGS and Bridget MESCALL (and variations).  They lived in Corbally and Sinon was a fisherman.

There may be some sort of relationship there.

Debra  :)

Offline Dundee

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Re: Assistance With Birth Location And Name Please
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 23 June 21 03:52 BST (UK) »
There were actually three Sinon HASTINGS in the same area, two with wives named Bridget.  One was born c1806 and died in 1880, and the two with wives named Bridget died in 1887 (born c1825) and 1908 (born c1839).

Debra  :)


Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Assistance With Birth Location And Name Please
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 23 June 21 04:23 BST (UK) »
There were actually three Sinon HASTINGS in the same area, two with wives named Bridget.  One was born c1806 and died in 1880, and the two with wives named Bridget died in 1887 (born c1825) and 1908 (born c1839).

Debra  :)

Thanks for the suggestions, I will pass them on.

BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens; CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter; COSGRAVE Castlebridge; CULLEN Lady's Island (LI); CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic; DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack; EDWARDS Wex; FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown; HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex; McGILL Litter; MORRIS Forth Commons; PIERCE LI; POTTS Bennettstown; REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit; SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wex; SMYTH Gerry/Oulart; WALSH Kilrane/Wex

Offline meath999

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Re: Assistance With Birth Location And Name Please
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 23 June 21 23:47 BST (UK) »
Looking at census 1901 and 1911 there are a number of Hastings families in Kilkee in County Clare, and one person has the First name "Senan". If your bride was 19 in 1879 she was born in 1860 but civil registration did not start in Ireland until 1864, so the birth can only be searched in church baptism records.  Its late for me here (in Ireland) now but I will try to search further tomorrow.

Kevin   

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Assistance With Birth Location And Name Please
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 27 June 21 22:58 BST (UK) »
Looking at census 1901 and 1911 there are a number of Hastings families in Kilkee in County Clare, and one person has the First name "Senan". If your bride was 19 in 1879 she was born in 1860 but civil registration did not start in Ireland until 1864, so the birth can only be searched in church baptism records.  Its late for me here (in Ireland) now but I will try to search further tomorrow.

Kevin

Senan it is! Should have thought of that!
St. Senan was a local saint from Co. Clare. Would have been popular name locally, I am sure.
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13713a.htm
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens; CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter; COSGRAVE Castlebridge; CULLEN Lady's Island (LI); CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic; DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack; EDWARDS Wex; FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown; HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex; McGILL Litter; MORRIS Forth Commons; PIERCE LI; POTTS Bennettstown; REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit; SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wex; SMYTH Gerry/Oulart; WALSH Kilrane/Wex

Offline greeneyedgirl

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Re: Assistance With Birth Location And Name Please
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 05 October 21 20:11 BST (UK) »
Looked at the death of Margaret(Hastings) Brodie in N. S. W. and it states her parents as Sinon Hastings & Mary Flanagan. Now the only parish registers available for Kilkee are births 1869-1880 too early for Margaret. However when looking at them, the only births showing are for father Sinon Hastings and wife Bridget Russell or Sinon with wife Bridget Mescal/Meskill. It is possible that one of these Sinons may be Margaret's father and maybe one of these Bridget may be his 2nd wife. Both of these Sinons died in the 1880's- Bridget Russell husband on 11 Oct 1880 and Bridget Mescal/Meskill husband 10 March 1887. I then looked at both the Griffiths Valuation 1848-1864 and the Tithe Applotment Books 1824-1838 and could not locate any Senan/Sinon Hastings anywhere in Ireland which is quite surprising. One thing which you may want to investigate further is the Petty Sessions Court Registers as Sinon Hastings appears in them alot mainly between 1855-1908 as either complainant or defendent, usually defendent. Without looking at the individual records it's hard to know if this is your Sinon but it's definitely worth looking at as there are about 25 records. Kim

Offline meath999

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Re: Assistance With Birth Location And Name Please
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 07 October 21 16:06 BST (UK) »
Re your comment that it was "surprising " that a name was not found in Griffiths Valuation, one needs to bear in mind that it was quite different to a Census, in which an attempt is made to list all the inhabitants.
 In Griffiths, the only people listed for any one House/Property are (1) The Owner of the property, and (2) where the property is leased to a Tenant, only the name of the Person who signed the Lease. 
So take a Fictional but Typical small farm holding, say Owned by a landlord called Lord Louth, and rented from him by the Keating family , made up of Grandfather Tom Keating, His son John Keating, wife Bridget, and 8 children. In the Census all 11 Keatings will be listed. In Griffiths , only 2 people are listed, the Landlord and Grandfather Keating.
And changes afterwards down the years are contained in the Valuation Office, Abbey Street, in Dublin, and can be seen only in person there. Changes were made by crossing out the old tenant and adding in the new one using coloured ink!!! The colour was different each year. These "Change books" are very delicate, and a project is underway to digitise them but it is only at pilot stage yet, and covers only 1 or 2 counties. And can still only be viewed in house. 


 

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Assistance With Birth Location And Name Please
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 10 October 21 20:47 BST (UK) »
Re your comment that it was "surprising " that a name was not found in Griffiths Valuation, one needs to bear in mind that it was quite different to a Census, in which an attempt is made to list all the inhabitants.
 In Griffiths, the only people listed for any one House/Property are (1) The Owner of the property, and (2) where the property is leased to a Tenant, only the name of the Person who signed the Lease. 
So take a Fictional but Typical small farm holding, say Owned by a landlord called Lord Louth, and rented from him by the Keating family , made up of Grandfather Tom Keating, His son John Keating, wife Bridget, and 8 children. In the Census all 11 Keatings will be listed. In Griffiths , only 2 people are listed, the Landlord and Grandfather Keating.
And changes afterwards down the years are contained in the Valuation Office, Abbey Street, in Dublin, and can be seen only in person there. Changes were made by crossing out the old tenant and adding in the new one using coloured ink!!! The colour was different each year. These "Change books" are very delicate, and a project is underway to digitise them but it is only at pilot stage yet, and covers only 1 or 2 counties. And can still only be viewed in house. 


Indeed, it is often the case that a missing name in Griffith's was probably living with a relative. Another common scenario that should be mentioned is that a laborer (+ family, if he had one), could be living in temporary accommodation provided by the farmer in the latter's homestead. In such a circumstance the laborer would not appear in the valuation.

One important point where I beg to differ is with regard to the availability of the cancelled or revised rates books (the revised valuation books generated over the years). These were microfilmed in B+W  years ago by the LDS (Mormon) church, and were available in their Family History Centers. I spent many, many long hours looking at them over 20 years ago. They may now be available online on the LDS family history website - I have not checked.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens; CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter; COSGRAVE Castlebridge; CULLEN Lady's Island (LI); CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic; DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack; EDWARDS Wex; FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown; HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex; McGILL Litter; MORRIS Forth Commons; PIERCE LI; POTTS Bennettstown; REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit; SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wex; SMYTH Gerry/Oulart; WALSH Kilrane/Wex