Author Topic: Windows 11 has been announced  (Read 2350 times)

Offline arthurk

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Re: Windows 11 has been announced
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 30 June 21 13:32 BST (UK) »
Microsoft want you to store your documents on their cloud environment - OneDrive - rather than locally. The "free" version of Office will do nothing else. Rent Office 365, and MS throw in some OneDrive space. They let you have a little space for "free", but charge a monthly fee for sensible amounts. They used to have an "unlimited" option, but chopped this drastically about 5 years ago.

Documents on OneDrive are NOT encrypted, but passed across the internet in their native form, so if you don't want MS looking inside them, you'll need to encrypt them manually first with something like PGP. Just copying from an encrypted hard drive would decrypt it automatically before it left your machine.

Since I don't use OneDrive or any version of MS Office (in fact since I managed to install W10 without a MS account I suspect it's can't as well as don't), am I protected against their attempts to seize my information?

I was going to add that if data on my hard drive was encrypted, would that also prevent MS getting their hands on it? However, in view of Nick's comment on the last sentence of Andrew's that I've quoted:
If the device is switched on and connected to the internet, and is vulnerable to remote access, then encryption is not going to stop people accessing your information because, as you also pointed out, just copying from an encrypted hard drive would decrypt it automatically before it left your machine.
are you saying that MS or other entities could just swipe files off the hard drive anyway and be able to read them even though they were encrypted? If so, what's the point of encryption?
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline andrewalston

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Re: Windows 11 has been announced
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 01 July 21 10:33 BST (UK) »
Since I don't use OneDrive or any version of MS Office (in fact since I managed to install W10 without a MS account I suspect it's can't as well as don't), am I protected against their attempts to seize my information?
They will still collect what is called "metadata" - things relating to how you use your computer.
I used to explain metadata by saying if they came across was a file called "Next Year's Redundancies", they could draw conclusions even if they could not open the file. Even the size of the file could be useful. In WWII, the British used "traffic analysis" well before the German codes were readable. Knowing who was talking to who gave invaluable insights into strategy. US intelligence services are known still to use this method.

Microsoft know a lot about your computer already. Make, model, hardware fitted, location and even the software being used are readily accessible to them. The aim is to translate that into revenue. Remember how much you paid for this version of Windows? They used to make MILLIONS from those Windows sales, and they want to get that money flowing again, so they are selling YOU to advertisers.

I was going to add that if data on my hard drive was encrypted, would that also prevent MS getting their hands on it? However, in view of Nick's comment on the last sentence of Andrew's that I've quoted:
If the device is switched on and connected to the internet, and is vulnerable to remote access, then encryption is not going to stop people accessing your information because, as you also pointed out, just copying from an encrypted hard drive would decrypt it automatically before it left your machine.
are you saying that MS or other entities could just swipe files off the hard drive anyway and be able to read them even though they were encrypted? If so, what's the point of encryption?
Encryption is a major barrier to those with physical access. Taking the drive out and putting it in another machine would just show gobbledygook.
Those accessing a computer as another user, even an Administrator, would not be able to access a user's files. It is common for an admin to access a computer across a network in order to diagnose and fix faults; they do so under their OWN username, so can not read the main user's documents. Unless you have the user's credentials, their files are locked away.
Should a computer be compromised by malware, or be running screen-sharing software (a common tactic used by scammers), then the user's files are fully accessible.
It is unclear whether the System account, used internally by Windows, can bypass these protections. It is unlikely that Microsoft would actually use it if it could, but you can bet that malware writers will have tried it.
Looking at ALSTON in south Ribble area, ALSTEAD and DONBAVAND/DUNBABIN etc. everywhere, HOWCROFT and MARSH in Bolton and Westhoughton, PICKERING in the Whitehaven area.

Census information is Crown Copyright. See www.nationalarchives.gov.uk for details.

Offline arthurk

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Re: Windows 11 has been announced
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 01 July 21 11:24 BST (UK) »
OK, thanks for that. So it seems the bottom line is that it might not be quite as bad as I feared, but if I want the convenience of a Windows computer then I'm going to have to accept that Microsoft will be keeping tabs on me to some extent - and this is probably already the case with Windows 10.

One further question about MS accounts - the W11 page says this (my Bold):
Quote
Microsoft account and internet connectivity required for setup for Windows 11 Home

If I were to create a new user account with admin privileges and use that to perform the upgrade to W11, and afterwards either delete it or just not use it any more, would I then be able to use W11 with my existing local account (ie not signed in to Microsoft at all)?

Or, in view of what you've just said about them monitoring traffic etc, is there little advantage in not having a MS account? Even if I had one, I wouldn't be using MS products such as Office or OneDrive.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline andrewalston

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Re: Windows 11 has been announced
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 01 July 21 16:48 BST (UK) »
If I were to create a new user account with admin privileges and use that to perform the upgrade to W11, and afterwards either delete it or just not use it any more, would I then be able to use W11 with my existing local account (ie not signed in to Microsoft at all)?

Or, in view of what you've just said about them monitoring traffic etc, is there little advantage in not having a MS account? Even if I had one, I wouldn't be using MS products such as Office or OneDrive.

The upgrade does not run with the user's credentials, but under the System user. If you have multiple accounts on a PC, each will then go through the lengthy bit that said "We have some updates for your PC" and a load of other patronising stuff (they have improved this in recent Insider builds). While this is going on, the system is actually trawling through the user's profile and ensuring that it follows the rules for the new version.

There are some features which demand an MS account and others which currently don't, but MS wish they did, and they push you towards its use. In their Store, for example, apps acquired on one machine are marked as "owned" on another tied to the same account.

That text on the website means that Windows 11 Home will continue to run when not connected to the Internet, but needs it during Setup. The "Out Of Box Experience" for Home will not have any option for a local account, and I expect the "upgrade" to demand an MS account before you see a desktop. Previous Win10 versions have demanded that we fill in extra forms at this stage; it would be trivial to implement.
Looking at ALSTON in south Ribble area, ALSTEAD and DONBAVAND/DUNBABIN etc. everywhere, HOWCROFT and MARSH in Bolton and Westhoughton, PICKERING in the Whitehaven area.

Census information is Crown Copyright. See www.nationalarchives.gov.uk for details.

Offline arthurk

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Re: Windows 11 has been announced
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 01 July 21 17:33 BST (UK) »
I heard that when some users upgraded from W7 to W10 while logged in via their MS account, the User's folder name in which they kept their personal files was changed from the one they'd had previously to one using the first 5 letters of their email address - so Norman found that his files were now located under Norma etc.

Any thoughts/comments on this? This is one reason for my question about doing the upgrade from a different account.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline andrewalston

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Re: Windows 11 has been announced
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 03 July 21 10:38 BST (UK) »
The stupidity of the folder rename must have struck home, because we have not heard similar stories at the major updates since. These go through the same process, and those on the Insider scheme go through many more - about one per fortnight for the "Dev" channel.

I have a couple of old laptops on the Insider scheme. The first one decided that it was not going to install Win11. This is the one that I thought might have an easier time, with little software installed. However the lack of Secure Boot appeared to be a stopper.

Late last night I got round to opening up the other laptop. It too is ancient. Its BIOS was last updated in 2010, so may have some UEFI features, though these don't appear in its menus. It has much more legacy software installed, so much for the update to cope with. The fortnightly updates have generally coped well, though.

I was greeted by the time, centre screen, in a fresh font. The update to Win11 had completed.

I quite like the fresh style. There are some things i don't like, but the Feedback may get them changed.

One feature I used very regularly in Windows 10, and is absent from the fresh Start Menu, is the selection of recent documents. Right-click the Excel icon in the start menu, and the list of recently opened spreadsheets appears, and you can pick the right sheet directly. This is most useful with my FH software, which happily opens the correct tree this way, but if opened without specifying a project gives a menu with things like "Open most recent tree" and "Browse to a tree". Its own list of recent documents is not accessible at that point; it needs to open SOME tree before that appears.
Looking at ALSTON in south Ribble area, ALSTEAD and DONBAVAND/DUNBABIN etc. everywhere, HOWCROFT and MARSH in Bolton and Westhoughton, PICKERING in the Whitehaven area.

Census information is Crown Copyright. See www.nationalarchives.gov.uk for details.

Offline arthurk

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Re: Windows 11 has been announced
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 03 July 21 11:30 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that, Andrew - one less thing to worry about (hopefully).

One feature I used very regularly in Windows 10, and is absent from the fresh Start Menu, is the selection of recent documents. Right-click the Excel icon in the start menu, and the list of recently opened spreadsheets appears, and you can pick the right sheet directly....

I mostly access recent documents by right-clicking taskbar icons. Do you know if this is affected in the same way? (I have sometimes found that major updates clear the list, though - this wouldn't be what you've experienced in the Start menu, would it?)
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline andrewalston

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Re: Windows 11 has been announced
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 03 July 21 14:11 BST (UK) »
I've not had chance to test properly, but when I opened a tree, it still didn't appear in the right-click.

It did appear in the "Suggestions" which takes up the bottom half of the new Start Menu. This appears to be the same thing as the "Recent Files" in Win10's File Explorer.
Looking at ALSTON in south Ribble area, ALSTEAD and DONBAVAND/DUNBABIN etc. everywhere, HOWCROFT and MARSH in Bolton and Westhoughton, PICKERING in the Whitehaven area.

Census information is Crown Copyright. See www.nationalarchives.gov.uk for details.

Offline arthurk

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Re: Windows 11 has been announced
« Reply #35 on: Saturday 03 July 21 14:21 BST (UK) »
Is there a rationale for all this, or just bored programmers playing around?
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk