Author Topic: DNA hits through Thrulines vs paper trail  (Read 1028 times)

Offline exeter dweller

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DNA hits through Thrulines vs paper trail
« on: Monday 28 June 21 09:48 BST (UK) »
Hi
I took an Ancestry DNA test back in March with the aim of breaking down some brick walls.
One of these brick walls is my 3x Gt Grandfather John Mills. I have the birth, marriage and death certificates.
Until recently I was the only match according to Thrulines. I now have one match at 14cM to a potential ancestor being my 5th Gt Grandfather. Their tree is private and they have not replied to my messages.
I have found several public member trees with this potential match and they do have John Mills's but none of the dates match my ancestor. I have built my own tree using the potential ancestor and cannot find a link to my ancestor. 

So my question is if DNA proves I am a match to another person how can I prove that their or my tree is possibly wrong?
Gary
Mills: Cubbington, Warwickshire London
Savage: Wiltshire London
Butler: Lambeth
Rowland: Bristol London
Marshall: Westminster Battersea
Theobold: Stepney London and possibly Weeley Essex
Knight: Westminster & Cumberland
East: Westminster & Hammersmith
Paton: Westminster
Vincent: Cubbington, Warwickshire

Offline Galium

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Re: DNA hits through Thrulines vs paper trail
« Reply #1 on: Monday 28 June 21 17:31 BST (UK) »
I've been thinking about this - and I think it is a real flaw in how Thrulines works. 

Example: there are a lot of trees on Ancestry leading to a marriage of Susan and Robert in the early years of the 19thC.  Descendents of this couple are DNA matches with OH.  However the trees all give Susan parents who are indeed common ancestors with OH, but they ignore the fact that the Susan they think she is, died as a child. My research tells me that she is actually a grandchild of the common ancestors.

  Unfortunately, Thrulines 'saw' the other trees first. Unless I can get around 100 tree owners to do their research for themselves instead of copying each other, Thrulines is going to keep on going with the wrong person. 

If you have done your research yourself, following the paper trail as carefully as you can, it is likely to be correct, no matter how many other trees say otherwise. Of course it is always worth following up an alternative that Thrulines offers, just in case, but if you are not persuaded, then trust your own research.
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Re: DNA hits through Thrulines vs paper trail
« Reply #2 on: Monday 28 June 21 17:55 BST (UK) »

If you have done your research yourself, following the paper trail as carefully as you can, it is likely to be correct, no matter how many other trees say otherwise. Of course it is always worth following up an alternative that Thrulines offers, just in case, but if you are not persuaded, then trust your own research.

I agree.

Also, it's worth constructing trees for your matches. I have come across quite a number of errors in a few of my matches's trees.

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Online Pheno

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Re: DNA hits through Thrulines vs paper trail
« Reply #3 on: Monday 28 June 21 18:09 BST (UK) »
I've been thinking about this - and I think it is a real flaw in how Thrulines works. 



  Unfortunately, Thrulines 'saw' the other trees first. Unless I can get around 100 tree owners to do their research for themselves instead of copying each other, Thrulines is going to keep on going with the wrong person. 



If you message those other people, with the source info showing the 'correct' info and explaining the problem then they might change their trees.  Not all at once and it will take some time, but thrulines works on a 'majority' so if enough change then thrulines will go for your route rather than the current one.

I have done this by convincing others that the person they have as their ancestor (who matches me) was not in Australia with a family in 1841 but still living at home with parents in Kent - so she can't be 'theirs'.

Admittedly not 100 trees but possibly 50, and now thrulines shows the correct route.

Pheno
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Offline Galium

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Re: DNA hits through Thrulines vs paper trail
« Reply #4 on: Monday 28 June 21 18:43 BST (UK) »
I think that you may have more patience than I do, Pheno  :) , and I admire your persistence.

A few years ago before I had any DNA tests on Ancestry, or even trees, when there were perhaps ten or fifteen trees showing this particular error,  I contacted (I think) 3 owners that looked most likely to be interested.  One of them thanked me, but no one was persuaded.
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Offline exeter dweller

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Re: DNA hits through Thrulines vs paper trail
« Reply #5 on: Monday 28 June 21 19:24 BST (UK) »
Thank you for all of your replies.
I believe my tree is correct as my ancestors birth of 1817/1818 is consistent with his age on his burial and all of the censuses.
The public member trees that match the potential ancestor have another John Mills born 1800 who got married in 1823 and later had a son another John born in 1833. Therefore my John is nothing to do with this family. I do not believe that the three public member trees are incorrect just that my John Mills does not fit in with their trees.
Would it help if I asked one of my Aunts to take a test as her 6th cousin matches will be one generation earlier than mine?
Gary
Mills: Cubbington, Warwickshire London
Savage: Wiltshire London
Butler: Lambeth
Rowland: Bristol London
Marshall: Westminster Battersea
Theobold: Stepney London and possibly Weeley Essex
Knight: Westminster & Cumberland
East: Westminster & Hammersmith
Paton: Westminster
Vincent: Cubbington, Warwickshire

Offline LizzieL

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Re: DNA hits through Thrulines vs paper trail
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 13 July 21 15:33 BST (UK) »
I've been thinking about this - and I think it is a real flaw in how Thrulines works. 

Example: there are a lot of trees on Ancestry leading to a marriage of Susan and Robert in the early years of the 19thC.  Descendents of this couple are DNA matches with OH.  However the trees all give Susan parents who are indeed common ancestors with OH, but they ignore the fact that the Susan they think she is, died as a child. My research tells me that she is actually a grandchild of the common ancestors.

  Unfortunately, Thrulines 'saw' the other trees first. Unless I can get around 100 tree owners to do their research for themselves instead of copying each other, Thrulines is going to keep on going with the wrong person. 

If you have done your research yourself, following the paper trail as carefully as you can, it is likely to be correct, no matter how many other trees say otherwise. Of course it is always worth following up an alternative that Thrulines offers, just in case, but if you are not persuaded, then trust your own research.

I had a very similar situation with thrulines. It calculated my relationship with one of my DNA  matches to a "potential common ancestor" - supposed father of my 3 x great grandmother. The DNA  match was descended from a son of this potential ancestor. I lost count at 20 trees with the same error. The PCA  did have a daughter with the same name, born in the same county, but much younger than my 3 x g-gmother, so would have been unlikely to have given birth to my 2 x g-gfather and impossible to have given birth to his older siblings. Also this girl died young and unmarried, whereas my 3 x g-gmother lived long enough to appear on 1851 censuses with some of her adult children and place of birth.
After much research I found that the PCA  was actually my 3 x g-gmother's older brother. Now instead of my Ancestry tree having a blank for her father - which was kindly filled by Ancestry with the erroneus PCA in green, I added the correct person. After a couple of days the Thrulines link disappeared - not that the DNA match is no longer my distant cousin several times removed, but that the shared real ancestor is one more generation back and just beyond Ancestry's generation threshold for thrulines.
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Offline TonyV

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Re: DNA hits through Thrulines vs paper trail
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 27 July 21 21:30 BST (UK) »
I think that Thrulines is intended by Ancestry to be similar to Tips. Ancestry is in effect making suggestions as to possible ancestors but it is your responsibility to verify their suggestion. Thrulines only looks at trees linked with your matches and not at the many other trees on its database. Where there is a conflict it is up to you to decide whether it is your tree that is wrong or the match trees that Thrulines points you to.

Of course, the match trees may have been copied from inaccurate trees elsewhere on Ancestry, or on other sites, but any serious family historian knows that so many of them contain mistakes, and therefore the onus is on you to check using the usual sources before harvesting or using stuff that could be completely wrong.

Even today I looked at a tree for one of my matches and found that one couple got married and had children when they were 5 & 6 years old - the couple that is, not the children. Interestingly the couple may be the correct ancestors and it is only their dates that are incorrect, but it is a very strong indication of carelessness on the part of the match tree user. 

Offline Murrell

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Re: DNA hits through Thrulines vs paper trail
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 27 July 21 22:42 BST (UK) »
I'm maybe not understanding how The Thrulines works but l only have ever been given names & details of people from my own tree !!!!!!!
Power Ward Rooney  Southern Ireland