Mysterious married couple (Brick wall)

[RossGillbanks]

I couldn't find many James either!
Sorry, when/where did he die? Have I missed that?

Some useful indexes in various forms, excel, pdf, word
Cumbria Archive Service - family history indexes
https://cumbria.gov.uk/archives/online_catalogues/genindexes/indexes.asp

Whitehaven baptisms, marriages, burials are among them

He died in Fulham Middlesex 1886, but I would advise reading my reply above as the 1881 census and James' death certificate his age changes suddenly

[Galium]

A suggestion only, but in 1851 there is  a William Gilbanks aged 12 listed alongside James and family.  Birthplace unknown - which one would not expect if he belonged to James and/or Ann.  But he is there with them, so possibly family?

On 30 April 1833 a Benjamin Gilbanks and Mary Kilender married at Whitehaven. 
I think this couple turn up in West Derby in 1841, with children Benjamin (6); William (3) and James (7m).

Benjamin snr is aged 30 and a stonemason. Benjamin jnr shows up in merchant marine apprentice records, having joined at Liverpool, birthplace is Whitehaven.

James' birth was registered in Liverpool district in 1840 mmn Killen.  William's birth (although census says he was born out of county) was also registered in Liverpool in 1838 mmn Killen.

By 1851, I think both parents have died; Mary aged 28 in 1843, Liverpool district and Benjamin  aged 38  in 1845, Wirral district; Benjamin jnr has begun his apprenticeship, and James died in 1842. 
Which leaves William, who does not appear to have died between 1841 and 1851.

So if this is the child who is with James in 1851, that would imply that he is close anough family for James to feel responsible for him, so nephew?

[RossGillbanks]

A suggestion only, but in 1851 there is  a William Gilbanks aged 12 listed alongside James and family.  Birthplace unknown - which one would not expect if he belonged to James and/or Ann.  But he is there with them, so possibly family?

On 30 April 1833 a Benjamin Gilbanks and Mary Kilender married at Whitehaven. 
I think this couple turn up in West Derby in 1841, with children Benjamin (6); William (3) and James (7m).

Benjamin snr is aged 30 and a stonemason. Benjamin jnr shows up in merchant marine apprentice records, having joined at Liverpool, birthplace is Whitehaven.

James' birth was registered in Liverpool district in 1840 mmn Killen.  William's birth (although census says he was born out of county) was also registered in Liverpool in 1838 mmn Killen.

By 1851, I think both parents have died; Mary aged 28 in 1843, Liverpool district and Benjamin  aged 38  in 1845, Wirral district; Benjamin jnr has begun his apprenticeship, and James died in 1842. 
Which leaves William, who does not appear to have died between 1841 and 1851.

So if this is the child who is with James in 1851, that would imply that he is close anough family for James to feel responsible for him, so nephew?

Thank you Galium, I did try to look into William previously, however the unknown place of birth led me to a rather difficult search. I hadn't previously been able to narrow his parents down. However I wonder if Benjamin snr who died 1845 was actually the son of John and Elizabeth Gilbanks? He was born 1809 and this would of course tie in if this was the case.

I do have a death cert for a William Gilbanks which I suspected to be the William on the 1851 Census. This William died 1857 aged 18 a labourer in Carlisle. However the informant wasn't a Gilbanks so I felt it was best to let that be for the time being rather than ordering certs left right and centre. Another reason was there was so many Gilbanks' in the Cumberland area in that time period it became really overwhelming to make sure I was looking at the right people to the point that I had set up several Ancestry trees in order to try keep track and even still managed to confuse myself so abandoned that idea. However William might be someone I will try and revisit as you said he might have been of very close relation or its coincidence

[jonw65]

Cumbria Archive Service - family history indexes
https://cumbria.gov.uk/archives/online_catalogues/genindexes/indexes.asp

Could they provide a missing link?
I noticed a burial at St Nicholas, Whitehaven, 11 March 1818
William Gillbanks, age 5

So born about 1812/13, in the gap between the Threlkeld baptisms and those at Whitehaven to John and Betty/Elizabeth

Have been looking for William's baptism on FamilySearch, and found this one, that might be him?
16 Dec 1813, Whitehaven
William Relph Giblant
parents John and Elizabeth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N58Z-XR7

From Bishop's transcripts for Holy Trinity Newchaple, Whitehaven, 1717-1856
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/311688

I'm not sure if this is the same HT as in the Whitehaven databases? Can't find him on there. St Bees?

[jonw65]

Well the Elizabeth Gilbanks baptism in 1815 is from the same microfilm, 90678
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NB7S-N5K

She is in the spreadsheet from Cumbria Archives.

[RossGillbanks]

Cumbria Archive Service - family history indexes
https://cumbria.gov.uk/archives/online_catalogues/genindexes/indexes.asp

Could they provide a missing link?
I noticed a burial at St Nicholas, Whitehaven, 11 March 1818
William Gillbanks, age 5

So born about 1812/13, in the gap between the Threlkeld baptisms and those at Whitehaven to John and Betty/Elizabeth

Have been looking for William's baptism on FamilySearch, and found this one, that might be him?
16 Dec 1813, Whitehaven
William Relph Giblant
parents John and Elizabeth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N58Z-XR7

From Bishop's transcripts for Holy Trinity Newchaple, Whitehaven, 1717-1856
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/311688

I'm not sure if this is the same HT as in the Whitehaven databases? Can't find him on there. St Bees?

What are the chances of them being the same couple?

If this is the case then to compile them all together for experimental purposes we would have:

Marriage at Matterdale, 28 Dec 1795
John Gilbanks and Elizabeth Relph

Children baptized to John and Betty at Threlkeld on FamilySearch
Mary 1798
John 1801
Joseph 1803
Hannah 1804
Sarah 1807
Benjamin 1809

Whitehaven On Familysearch:
William Relph Giblant 16 Dec 1813, Whitehaven to John and Elizabeth Gilbanks
Elizabeth, 22 March 1815, to John and Elizabeth Gilbanks

Not on FS or in the Index that I can see:
James Gilbanks, 27 Oct 1816, Whitehaven to John and Elizabeth Gilbanks

William Relph Gilbanks in my opinion is most likely from the same family, as Elizabeth/Betty's maiden name is Relph.

Now I come to think of it James' son Benjamin had a son who's name was Ralph (maybe just coincidence?).

I have asked Carlisle archives for help however they requested that I hire a researcher but I was reluctant to do so until I had a better idea of roughly where James was born.

[jonw65]

Hi
I agree that the Relph name looks very hopeful, as long as they have it right. Does it really say Giblant though? I would think there is a fair chance it is the same couple who had Elizabeth and James baptized subsequently at Holy Trinity.

That entry on FamilySearch is from a BT (they are not always easy to read!). Perhaps it was a baptism at a Whitehaven chapelry (if there was one) and sent in together with the returns for the mother church That would be quite usual. Anyway, I can't find William on the spreadsheet!

[jonw65]

There are some missing years in those BTs, 1816-18.
Which would be why James's baptism in 1816 is not on FamilySearch.

[RossGillbanks]

Hi
I agree that the Relph name looks very hopeful, as long as they have it right. Does it really say Giblant though? I would think there is a fair chance it is the same couple who had Elizabeth and James baptized subsequently at Holy Trinity.

That entry on FamilySearch is from a BT (they are not always easy to read!). Perhaps it was a baptism at a Whitehaven chapelry (if there was one) and sent in together with the returns for the mother church That would be quite usual. Anyway, I can't find William on the spreadsheet!

I have just found James on the spreadsheet (James Gilbank on row 7612)

I am sure if someone requested to see the original the archives may sent it over via email. I know they done this for me with James' sons baptism.  I can't see William on the spreadsheet either. I did ask Whitehaven archives when they sent over James' baptism if they have the original can they send over (still awaiting a reply). Although it wont add much information I just like to collect documents even if it is not the James I am looking for no doubt I will find it useful at another stage