Leslie William Armitage DINSDALE

[EmmaDean]

Hello!

My great-great grandfather was, I believe, an illegitimate child. He was born on the 17th February 1911. His mother was Edith Dinsdale. I have obtained a copy of the birth certificate and there is a line struck through the boxes where the father’s details would be. I already had a copy of Leslie’s marriage certificate and there are no father’s details stated on there either.

Leslie was born at 32 Valley Mount in Harrogate. I’ve had a look to see if there is any particular significance of that address but there doesn’t appear to be so. At the time, Edith was living with her sister, Emily, brother-in-law and brother at 43 Regent Street in Harrogate. This is confirmed by the 1911 Census.

In both the Census and on Leslie’s birth certificate, Edith is stated as being a domestic servant.

The birth was not registered until 15th March 1911.

I am, of course, trying to be a detective and see if I can figure out who Leslie’s father was. I have a feeling that the ‘Armitage’ in his name is of some significance as it is an unusual middle name and I know that there was a tendency to include perhaps the father’s surname somewhere, particularly if there was a chance that the parents  would subsequently marry in which case the mother’s maiden name could be dropped.

Can anyone help me in my detective work please? In particular, I am trying to ascertain whether there is any baptism record for Leslie. I have checked the online records but these seem to only go up to just before he was born.

Any help, thoughts or suggestions would be very welcome!

Thanks

Emma

[Comberton]

This is who was at 32 Valley Mount in 1911

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWNV-3GX

[dobfarm]

Hi Emma,

I have the same problem with more detailed facts than you but still can not be certain who was the father of my maternal granddad. To cut a very long story short! I could not find my granddad Herbert Tidmarsh's  birth certificate, I thought his father was the husband of my Gt granny maiden name Cutts. I also thought as they were my Gt Grand parents married 1867 and my granddad baptised Feb 1868 with both Gt Grandparents named on the parish register that its all normal, but No birth certificate for Herbert my granddad and had checked all local register offices in also after 1867. Then when I looked at the 1939 register that gives date of births, there was granddad born Nov 1866, Still no birth certificate for a Herbert Tidmarsh though even in 1866 and then I tried the nearest register office asking for any Herbert born in Nov 1866 - Bingo -one Herbert named Herbert Cut no fathers named given in their register.

OK ! the father could have been  Samuel Tidmarsh who marred Mary Cutts but I have doubts as all their children born after their marriage 1867 were quit brainy and Granddad Herbert was ! though a good worker as a farm labourer but lived independent alot of his sibings, he was literate and even could not learn to read or write in later life  after his kids tried to teach him.

Thus - who knows (DNA maybe)

[EmmaDean]

This is who was at 32 Valley Mount in 1911

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWNV-3GX

Thanks Comberton. I had already looked at that point - nothing of glaring significance there other than Edith could have been friends with the eldest daughter and gone into labour whilst visiting her friend? Who knows?! 🤷🏼‍♀️

[EmmaDean]

Hi Emma,

I have the same problem with more detailed facts than you but still can not be certain who was the father of my maternal granddad. To cut a very long story short! I could not find my granddad Herbert Tidmarsh's  birth certificate, I thought his father was the husband of my Gt granny maiden name Cutts. I also thought as they were my Gt Grand parents married 1867 and my granddad baptised Feb 1868 with both Gt Grandparents named on the parish register that its all normal, but No birth certificate for Herbert my granddad and had checked all local register offices in also after 1867. Then when I looked at the 1939 register that gives date of births, there was granddad born Nov 1866, Still no birth certificate for a Herbert Tidmarsh though even in 1866 and then I tried the nearest register office asking for any Herbert born in Nov 1866 - Bingo -one Herbert named Herbert Cut no fathers named given in their register.

OK ! the father could have been  Samuel Tidmarsh who marred Mary Cutts but I have doubts as all their children born after their marriage 1867 were quit brainy and Granddad Herbert was ! though a good worker as a farm labourer but lived independent alot of his sibings, he was literate and even could not learn to read or write in later life  after his kids tried to teach him.

Thus - who knows (DNA maybe)

Thanks dobfarm. I realise it’s a long shot and I’m probably never going to really know. I’m just having issues left, right and centre with my direct ancestors and it’s beginning to get me down a bit! Both my great-great grandfathers are a bit mysterious. The one on my mother’s side I can find hide nor hair of before 1901 when he married my great-great grandmother when he was, apparently, 27 years old!

I guess I’m wondering/hoping whether someone local to the area (the birth was registered in Knaresborough) would be able to see if they can find any more information such as a baptism record.

[dobfarm]

Hi Emma.

(My mum was called Emma - a lovely name)

It maybe a bit late in years into the early twentieth century but it maybe worth a look at quarter session or bastardy records/ local parish overseers accounts to see if there was an order on the father to pay towards the childs upkeep which would have the mothers name on their records.