1881 Census: was he drunk when the enumerator called?

[Davedrave]

The 1881 Census entry for the family of William and Martha Hunt of The Green, Belgrave, Leicester, is so bizarre that I wonder whether the information the enumerator was given was deliberately misleading or whether William was drunk at the time.

Almost certainly it is the same William and Martha Hunt who were living in Millstone Lane, Leicester, in the 1871 Census, but the children’s ages are wrong, and for some reason it is not known in 1881 where anyone was born, though the children were born in a caravan, it seems.

I’m pretty sure that William married Martha Church in Leicester in 1868, and that Benjamin was registered in 1870, William in 1874, and Rose Ellen in 1876. Both Benjamin and William were baptised in the year of birth. In 1881 Benjamin was said to be 15, and William 11. (Rose) Ellen’s age is O.K.

The reason I’m confident it is the same family is that Luke Hunt (born 1861) was also living on The Green at the same time, and he was the brother of William. (William and Luke were with parents William and Mary Hunt in Crab Street, Leicester, in 1861.) In 1891 Luke, a widower aged 28, was in the household of Benjamin Hunt, aged 22, born Leicester. Benjamin Hunt was a salt hawker. His sister Sarah later did the same work.

William was almost certainly the same William who, as a juvenile and a hawker, was fined in 1859 for a nasty dog attack on a boy. In 1861 he was a framework knitter, in 1871, a labourer (plumber and glazier according to his sons’ baptism records), in 1881 a costermonger, and in 1891 a hawker again. In 1901 he was at Smockington Hollow, Hinckley, a scrap dealer. In 1911 he is in the same place, and has had four children and been married 43 years (so married 1868).

How to explain the 1881 census?

[rosie99]

Was he literate as he would have had to complete a form to give to the enumerator or get someone to do it for him.

[Davedrave]

Was he literate as he would have had to complete a form to give to the enumerator or get someone to do it for him.

I don’t know. Quite possibly not. Brother Joseph signed his name when he married, Luke and Sarah made marks. I haven’t seen William’s marriage. Did the enumerator not help with people who were illiterate? That must have been a majority at one time, and this is the only census for William which displays these anomalies. And someone managed to communicate the fact to the enumerator that apparently the children were born in a caravan.

[groom]

It is a misconception that most census forms were filled in by the enumerator, that wasn't their job. The forms were delivered to the houses to be filled in by the householder. By the later censuses they was usually someone in the house who could read and write, by 1890 only 20% of men were illiterate. A day or so after the census, the enumerator returned to the house to check and collect the papers. On checking, if there were parts not filled in he would help.

People think because what we see is all in the same writing that the enumerator did it all, but what we see, apart from 1911, is the enumerators books, not the actual census form.

[Davedrave]

Thanks for making the point about the pre-1911 censuses. In fact, in 1911 William and Martha’s census form is filled in in good writing, so presumably by William, who signed it. Maybe he’d been unable to write in 1881 but had learned by 1911. OTOH his father William could certainly sign his name when he married in 1839.

One thought that occurred to me recently is that presumably people in the past must have suffered from dyslexia, as it is now understood that some people do today, and yet we tend to assume that people in the past who made a mark were simply illiterate. This might presumably explain at least some instances where some siblings appear to have been literate but not others.

Dave

[Ladyhawk]

I’m pretty sure that William married Martha Church in Leicester in 1868, and that
Benjamin was registered in 1870, William in 1874, and
Rose Ellen in 1876. Both Benjamin and William were baptised in the year of birth.

In 1881 Benjamin was said to be 15, and William 11. (Rose) Ellen’s age is O.K.

1911 he is in the same place, and has had four children and been married 43 years (so married 1868).

1868 marriage certificate would confirm his father's name.

GRO indexes confirm mmn

Rose Ellen HUNT mmn CHURCH
1876  J Quarter in LEICESTER  Volume 07A  Page 258   

William HUNT mmn CHURCH
1873  D Quarter in LEICESTER  Volume 07A  Page 244

Benjamin HUNT mmn   CHURCH
1870  J Quarter in LEICESTER  Volume 07A  Page 244   

Couldn’t find a birth entry c1865 for a Hannah HUNT mmn CHURCH

Was Hannah registered as CHURCH before their 1868 marriage ? mmn blank

Hannah CHURCH   -
1865  D Quarter in LEICESTER  Volume 07A  Page 209   

[Davedrave]

I must admit that I hadn’t thought of looking for the registration of the birth of Hannah Church. I suppose she could either have been the child of William, if he’d had a relationship with Martha for some while before they married, or William might have married Martha as a single woman with another man’s illegitimate daughter. All of William’s brothers married in parish churches, so it may be significant that William seems to have married in a register office.

I think that there is so much circumstantial evidence to link William to well-documented Hunts that I’m confident it is him. William Hunt in 1871, in Friar Lane, was a glazier, the occupation of brother Luke in 1881. In 1891 William was back very close to where he’d lived in 1861, and oddly, William’s mother Mary, sister Sarah (now Light] and brother, Joseph, were all in the same street in Belgrave that William had been in in 1881, so possibly all of them were there at some point between 1881 and 1891. On top of this, Luke was boarding with William’s son Benjamin in 1891, and very close to where Benjamin’s father William then was.

[Stanwix England]

Maybe his wife wasn't available and he didn't remember the children's ages without being prompted?

Apparently my Dad recently asked my Mum if I was 30 yet. I'm closer to 40 than 30! 

[Maiden Stone]

Maybe his wife wasn't available and he didn't remember the children's ages without being prompted?

Apparently my Dad recently asked my Mum if I was 30 yet. I'm closer to 40 than 30!  ;

Stanwix suggestion has merit.
 My dad's eldest uncle in Ireland got ages of some of klds wrong .Grandad made mistakes on 1911 census. B keyboard playing up can't correct typos. If The dad not there at birth so can't be expected to remember details like when and where. The Irish uncle's son estimated his mother's age wrong by a decade when she died.
 Capital b was a mistype not abbreviation for expletive.