Author Topic: 1911 Census Entry in St Elizabeth Home, Green Street, London  (Read 1707 times)

Offline Ruskie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 26,198
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1911 Census Entry in St Elizabeth Home, Green Street, London
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 10 July 21 00:13 BST (UK) »
Have you checked for deaths in case the baby did not survive?

If there was no register of birth it is possible that this was a stillbirth.

Offline ARBELLA

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 45
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1911 Census Entry in St Elizabeth Home, Green Street, London
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 10 July 21 00:52 BST (UK) »
To jonw65. Thank you for sharing your expertise so generously! First, I do apologise for the delay in replying to you. I was acting on your superb instructions. I am particularly grateful for the examples of baptisms, linked to women who were in the !911 Census entries for the St Elizabeth Home. I would never have found my relative without them. But, thanks to all the time you have taken, and the meticulous examples, I am now convinced that I have found details of her child.

I now have an image of an original handwritten entry from the Essex parish registers, for, I gather, a church described as 'Plaistow St Philip and St James'. It gives the name of the child and the first name and surname of my relative,
 The child was born 21 January 1911 at 26 Howards Road. The address seems a crucial detail, for, as you say, this property was linked to St Elizabeth Home.
The child was christened 1st February 1911.

I did not know of the GRO before your kind advice! I have now ordered a birth certificate for my relative's child.

It seems a sad story. The death of a child with the correct name, birth year, and place (West Ham, Essex) was recorded in the Civil Registration Index for March 1911. The child would have been two months old, or less.

Again, thanks to you, I have ordered a death certificate via the GRO for this death. I think this will prove to be for my relative's child.

I was concerned that there might be living descendants - although I did not intend to make the child's name public. It seems this was not the case. I also wondered - and still wonder - what the usual fate was of   children born under the auspices of St Elizabeth home. I am not even sure where my relative's child spent its short life. The death certificate might give a clue.

I would like to know what I can about the brief story of my relative's child. I think I will try next to find out a little about this particular church, and to find out where the child was buried. You have been more than generous with your time, but if you have any thoughts on locating the burial records, I would be very grateful. Otherwise I will try Ancestry, Findmypast and Family Search. I am very glad the last two exist, but I must confess that I find them tricky to use! Again, thank you for your help. My relative's common name - and a transcription mistake in her Census records - would have made it very difficult for me to find out this story without you and RootsChat! I am very grateful.
 

Offline ARBELLA

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 45
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1911 Census Entry in St Elizabeth Home, Green Street, London
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 10 July 21 00:58 BST (UK) »
To Ruskie. Thank you - stillbirth was indeed a possibility. Due to generous help, like yours, on this Forum, I think I have now identified the child, and am waiting for a birth certificate. Sadly, as I mention in another reply on this thread, I have found a death record which suggests that the child did not live beyond two months. I am also obtaining a certificate to confirm this is my relative's child. It is a very unexpected and sad story. But I think it is important to understand the past fully, including its sorrows. I am very grateful for your help! I will bear this in mind if I need to trace other relatives. Thank you again.

Offline Ruskie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 26,198
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1911 Census Entry in St Elizabeth Home, Green Street, London
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 10 July 21 07:20 BST (UK) »
A baby that young and a mother with limited means, might mean that the baby was buried in a common grave, or baby might have been added to the coffin of someone who died around the same time, likely a stranger. Once the d/c arrives, the address of death might lead to a clue as to the likely burial place as it will probably be nearby.


Offline jonw65

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,769
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1911 Census Entry in St Elizabeth Home, Green Street, London
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 10 July 21 07:46 BST (UK) »
Hi
Very sorry to hear that your relative's child died.
If you cannot find a burial indexed online, on ancestry or deceased online (and ancestry has an index to many burials on the latter in their UK, Burial and Cremation Index, 1576-2014), then the alternatives may be

East London Cemetery, Grange Road, Plaistow. This would probably be the likeliest. Unfortunately it is the only big cemetery in East London whose registers are not online in some form.

City of London Cemetery, Manor Park. You can search the registers yourself at home, no indexes
https://col-burialregisters.uk/archive

Woodgrange Park Cemetery, Forest Gate.
These registers are on FamilySearch. FS is totally free, but nowadays you have to be registered to view results, images.
The registers are here, two of them per film, indexed at the beginning. Click on a camera icon to view
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/1161381

If the latter two draw a blank, then I am not sure whether East London Cemetery will help. I remember someone on here got lucky a few years ago, they had a date of death and rang their office, and were given confirmation that their person was buried there.
So it's always worth giving things a go!

Offline ARBELLA

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 45
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1911 Census Entry in St Elizabeth Home, Green Street, London
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 11 July 21 17:45 BST (UK) »
To Ruskie. Thank you very much for the information about methods of burial. This was not something I had considered. Thanks to your prompt, I looked out for this while searching records of London graveyards in 1911. I did indeed find all kinds of grades of graves, including various 'Classes' of 'Common Interment'. I'm very grateful for this insight!

Offline ARBELLA

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 45
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1911 Census Entry in St Elizabeth Home, Green Street, London
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 11 July 21 17:59 BST (UK) »
To jon65w My apologies for a delayed reply, due to a professional commitment.

Thank you for such a detailed and helpful reply! I am particularly grateful for your advice to use the camera icon to see the Woodgrange Park records.

I have now tried all the sources you suggest. This was immensely helpful, as it gave me information about the many classes of grave available - and the circumstances of some of the other poor buried in London in 1911, such as the inmates of workhouses... all insights into the background of my relative's own story.

I  entirely agree that the East London Cemetery, Grange Road, Plaistow, seems the most likely candidate. You have kindly saved me long fruitless searches by telling me that their records are not available online! When I have the child's death certificate, I intend to try ringing the cemetery, just in case any information is available. If I do find anything out, I will of course submit a post about my discoveries.

I have already found out immensely more than I would have done without the kind help from you and your knowledgeable fellow-researchers on Rootschat. Thank you again!

 

Offline ARBELLA

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 45
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1911 Census Entry in St Elizabeth Home, Green Street, London
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 18 July 21 15:32 BST (UK) »
To jon65w and all the kind experts who replied to my queries about the 1911 Census entry for a distant relative. A young single woman, she was an 'Inmate' in St Elizabeth Home, Green Street, London, described on the Census entry as a 'Maternity Rescue Home'. Thanks to your ingenious help, I did find more information about her child. It is indeed a sad story, but one which was important to me to discover fully, and which may be of interest to other searchers.

Thanks to the excellent advice to look for records in Essex, and to search the General Records Office, I now have copies of the birth certificate, baptism record and death certificate of my relative's small son.  He was born, in January 1911, at 26 Howards Road, the house used for births for the women from the (Church-run) St Elizabeth Home. He was christened at a local church at the beginning of February, but died three days later at the house in Howards Road. He had lived for 13 days,

There are just a few questions which remain from these discoveries. I would very much welcome your thoughts - which may, again, be very helpful to other researchers.

It was obviously very risky to take a very young, perhaps already very sick, baby to a church, in February, for baptism. Apart from general religious faith, were there any particular reasons why those responsible for this child might have wanted to have him christened? For example, did he have to be baptised to be eligible for burial in consecrated ground?

The cause of the child's death is given, on the death certificate, as 'asthenia'. This is an unfamiliar term to me. I gather that it can mean 'general weakness'. Does anyone, please, have any comments on the use of this term on the death certificate of a very young baby in an institution in 1911?

I am sure that the Census experts amongst you have spotted a fact which jim1 helpfully drew to my attention. The date of the 1911 Census was, I believe, 2 April 1911. When I first saw the entry for my relative, I assumed that she was pregnant in April 1911 and was in St Elizabeth Home waiting to have the child. I now know that her child had been born in January 1911, and had died roughly two months before the Census.

But its mother, my relative was still living in the home in early April. I can only guess the reasons: illness, mental or physical; a family (outside London) who might not want her back at this time; no job to go to (the death certificate reveals that she had been 'a domestic servant'). Does anyone know, please, what the usual length of stay in a Church Maternity Rescue home would have been, in 1911, for a woman who had already given birth? And does anyone know, please, what the usual fate was for the babies born in such a home? Were they always given up by their mothers e.g. for private adoption?
Thank you very much for your time! The documents found through your help explain much about someone I did know, in her resilient old age. They throw a sharp light on the world in which she found herself, as  an isolated young woman. I look forward gratefully to any further comments you may have.


Offline jonw65

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,769
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1911 Census Entry in St Elizabeth Home, Green Street, London
« Reply #17 on: Monday 19 July 21 20:45 BST (UK) »
Hi
I'm sure we are all glad that Rootschat has been able to assist you.
I can't really answer your questions about the home. We see many babies who must have been sickly baptized quickly, and then followed by a burial entry.
Perhaps it might have been some kind of "private" baptism at the home or in Howards Road, but that hasn't been recorded?
Hopefully you can find a burial of the baby eventually, and that may tell you whether it was in consecrated ground. Presumably it was.

We seem to have had a few questions about asthenia, and I think your understanding of the term is correct, not sure there is anything more specific to it.
Thanks for your very nice responses to our posts, and hope you learn more about St Elizabeth Home in the future (possibly on here!)
John