Author Topic: A minor point on LDS "sealing"  (Read 2022 times)

Offline Ranolki

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Re: A minor point on LDS "sealing"
« Reply #9 on: Friday 09 July 21 18:49 BST (UK) »
Thanks for these thoughts - very like my own!  I was fully aware there are a couple of branches of my family involved with the LDS but it had really not impacted on the rest of the family in any way. If I have to back off from this I'll be happy to do so but I'd love to know the answer anyway.

I understand they sometimes look back by one generation (about 25 years) and just grab everyone they see as suitable candidates.  I'm not sure of the logic but presumably with the get out that the deceased so "sealed" can later opt out!

I did look through that link to the FamilySearch info but it seems any info which might be useful may be on microfiche and not easily viewed.  It really is of no consequence to me but I just know one of the older family members who actually knew the person I'm looking at will probably have something to say on this...

Offline iluleah

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Re: A minor point on LDS "sealing"
« Reply #10 on: Friday 09 July 21 19:05 BST (UK) »
When I first started to get interested in researching my family history I happened to mention it to my neighbour in a conversation and she  said she would help if I needed ... Oh yes please I did need!

She was/is LDS she gave me some LDS family sheets and showed me the basics, cautioned me about the IGI and told me to only ever use it as a clue to look at 'if' there was a real record or not  (now the IGI is renamed as 'collections)' as they know people know/caught on the IGI is just names/dates/places, donated in batches of 200 by LDS as part of their religious 'service' and LDS who do that are thought of as 'better LDS' none of anything is checked and I 100% know that anyone can and do send in totally made up names/dates/places and it will be added to their LDS data for other people to search as 'records'...

At that time there were no burial records as the LDS don't beleive people die, they just go to a 'higher place' and if they are LDS then they go to an even 'higher heaven' than anyone else... where they eventually meet up and their life continues together, so any burials sent to them/collected by them the people were sealed into the LDS...so 'born again as LDS'...the fastest growing church in the world...yes because burials/sealing are also added to those numbers of 'new' LDS members.

Now I do remember the huge row with the Jewish community when LDS sealed everyone who was killed during the holocaust and eventually LDS apologised and unsealed them...now the LDS show burial records, maybe because of that media storm created with Jewish people being sealed/maybe not,

In answering my question about why nothing is checked and why 'it doesn't matter' if a wrong person is in the tree ( to me one mistake and EVERYTHING back from that person is wrong) I was told EVERYONE is related anyway so that is why it doesn't matter, it just means they might not be in order... the goal of the LDS is one tree with everyone in the world on it.
'
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Offline clayton bradley

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Re: A minor point on LDS "sealing"
« Reply #11 on: Friday 09 July 21 19:24 BST (UK) »
There must be something on familysearch which says who has been sealed because I know my Dutch grandma has been sealed and she was a devout member of the Dutch Reformed Church.
Broadley (Lancs all dates and Halifax bef 1654)

Offline iluleah

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Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend


Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: A minor point on LDS "sealing"
« Reply #13 on: Friday 09 July 21 19:40 BST (UK) »
I can see there have been discussions before about this topic but I can't see that this particular point is covered.

Until recently I had not really appreciated why Mormons (and/or members of the Church of Latter Day Saints) were so keen to establish their family trees.  I do now understand the idea behind sealing their ancestors and although I'm very grateful for all the research done by the Church (which often makes my own research easier), something a little nearer to home has arisen.  I'm now wondering, at the point they decide to "seal" someone to their family by using proxy baptisms etc, is there a searchable record kept?

Yes there is a record kept of all Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ordinances, some of these are closed records some used to be available on the microfiche form of the IGI and a few are available online.

I have realised there is every likelihood that one of my ancestors (and potentially his ancestors too) will have been sealed in this way. I'm an atheist myself so on the face of it I would normally just dismiss this as a "fun fact".  I'm also fully aware that they say the baptised person would, in the afterlife, have the chance to reject that sealing and I suspect that this ancestor, from a God-fearing high Anglican background, would probably do just that.

This is a point that causes trouble between those who follow religion and different religions and also atheists. Those who follow a faith often say that is where faith comes into the equation, many atheists claim if there is no physical proof it is rubbish, but people used to make such claims about things like electricity before science revealed the truth.
I prefer to keep an open mind and would not dismiss anything without evidence.

Nevertheless, if registers DO exist I would like the chance to have a look.  The huge tree I've almost finished is going into a book and I know there are a few older relatives who wouldn't be too happy about this idea.  I may just leave the whole thing out but I still feel I need to check if possible!

Well done for almost finishing your tree, I have been working on a tree I inherited about 65 years ago and I am still nowhere near finishing, but then I admit I am lazy. Children keep being born, people marry and even inconsiderably die. In addition more and more records become available or accessible as time passes so I just keep going, perhaps my great grandchildren or their children might be able to claim its complete. ;))

The LDS share the information freely with anyone in the world who wishes to access it. I will leave this topic with this question. Other religions and many atheists refuse to share what they have collated who is the most generous and religious?
Cheers
Guy
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Offline Ranolki

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Re: A minor point on LDS "sealing"
« Reply #14 on: Friday 09 July 21 22:53 BST (UK) »
Thanks everyone for these ideas.

My tree has been ten years in the making and has involved buying many certificates, DNA testing, double checking many official records, chatting online with new found relatives all over the world and exchanging photos and forgotten stories.  It's been a fantastic adventure and fortunately or unfortunately many family skeletons have been exposed and laid to rest.  The main part of the tree has now been published in a family book which will hopefully be an heirloom at some point.  Obviously more information still pops up though.

What I'm looking at now is one particular relative who had, unbeknown to me previously, a particularly interesting history.  He will have his own book eventually - our research on him is now not really genealogical, more related to local history etc.  He is the one who may have been sealed.  I'm quite happy to leave this out of the story but if the info is there I would love to see it.

I'm very respectful of anyone's beliefs and don't for one minute insist my own ideas are the necessarily right.  Mine are what I'm comfortable with.  I'm more concerned with how someone who does have religious convictions would feel about this sealing being done to one of their close relatives.  If I'm able to look at any registers I would love to find out if any of my ancestors are on there.  This is more a matter of personal interest as I probably will not record the info in the book otherwise.


Offline Gan Yam

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Re: A minor point on LDS "sealing"
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 10 July 21 12:57 BST (UK) »
Thanks everyone for these ideas.

My tree has been ten years in the making and has involved buying many certificates, DNA testing, double checking many official records, chatting online with new found relatives all over the world and exchanging photos and forgotten stories.  It's been a fantastic adventure and fortunately or unfortunately many family skeletons have been exposed and laid to rest.  The main part of the tree has now been published in a family book which will hopefully be an heirloom at some point.  Obviously more information still pops up though.

What I'm looking at now is one particular relative who had, unbeknown to me previously, a particularly interesting history.  He will have his own book eventually - our research on him is now not really genealogical, more related to local history etc.  He is the one who may have been sealed.  I'm quite happy to leave this out of the story but if the info is there I would love to see it.

I'm very respectful of anyone's beliefs and don't for one minute insist my own ideas are the necessarily right.  Mine are what I'm comfortable with.  I'm more concerned with how someone who does have religious convictions would feel about this sealing being done to one of their close relatives.  If I'm able to look at any registers I would love to find out if any of my ancestors are on there.  This is more a matter of personal interest as I probably will not record the info in the book otherwise.

My 2nd great grand uncle joined the Mormons in the early 1840's and moved to USA a few years later.  He was a Utah trail pioneer. His parents, my 3xGt Grandparents (both died mid 1850s) have been sealed by proxy, in the early 1900's to the LDS. They were Anglicans and were opposed to him and his wife joining the Mormons, so I suspect that they would not have been very happy about being sealed. Some of their descendants (my direct line), have also been sealed. Unfortunately several computers and lots of years have passed.  I cant lay my hand on the source of the information at the moment and it may no longer be available on line, but it did give the name of the temple the sealing took place and possibly who their proxies were.
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Offline Ranolki

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Re: A minor point on LDS "sealing"
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 10 July 21 19:34 BST (UK) »
Thank you Gan Yam.  I can't even put my finger on what is making me so uncomfortable about this.  I'm thinking it's the thought of someone thinking their beliefs are going to take priority over someone else's.  It shouldn't matter to me at all but for some reason it does!

Offline Forguette

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Re: A minor point on LDS "sealing"
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 10 July 21 19:46 BST (UK) »
I'm with you there Ranolki. It's sheer arrogance...  and lunacy also, in my opinion.

Actually, religion as a whole steps way over the boundaries. From doorstep pushing of their beliefs to influencing laws and governments to push their beliefs.