James Murray born ca 1805 61st & 87th Regiments

[Forfarian]

In which case James  had a sister Elizabeth.

Hmmm.

The IGI lists several children of John Burness and Elizabeth Murray
James, baptised 3 May 1835
William, baptised 28 June 1837
Thomas, baptised 7 July 1839
Elizabeth, baptised 22 December 1841
Elizabeth, baptised 4 March 1843
all baptised in St John's Episcopal Church, Aberdeen, so it's no surprise that they're not indexed on SP.

There's information about her and some of her descendants at https://burness.ca/g0/p587.htm#i5866

In 1841, at James Street, Aberdeen
John Burness, 25, born Scotland not Aberdeenshire
Elizabeth Burness, 25, born Ireland
James, Burness, 6
William Burness, 4
Thomas Burness, 2
Margaret Burness, 50, birth county unknown
Christian Banks, 65
Isabella Gray, 60
Ann Gray, 20
all born Aberdeenshire unless otherwise indicated.

I think John Burness is in Leith in 1851
John Burns, 40, Stoker
James Burns, son, 16, rope maker
Thomas Burns, son, 13, errand boy
Margaret Burns, daughter, 2
all born Aberdeen except Margaret who was born in South Leith. The FreeCEN transcription doesn't say what John's marital status is, but FindMyPast says he is a widower.

So it looks as if Elizabeth Murray or Burness died before the start of civil registration, so no help from her death certificate.

There is a death of Elizabeth Burness in Edinburgh St Cuthbert's on 14 November 1849 which might fit.

The 1861 census lists in South Leith
John Burns, general labourer, 50, born Ireland
Wife Anne Hally, 40, born Ireland
Daughter Margaret Burns, 12, born Midlothian
three younger children and
James Callaghin, visitor, 45, general labourer, born Ireland.

[josey]

Thank you Forfarian.

I think in reply #8, GR2 found an 1861 census with James [who in 1851 had niece Elizabeth Burness] linen bleacher so he wasn't the James who died 1853 who is most probably 'mine'

[Neale1961]

Hi Josey
I looked the other day, for quite some time, for the boys James and William in the census after 1851, but I found nothing.
I think you might need to consider that they emigrated, and look abroad. They were both perfect candidates (young, very poor, without parents) for assisted immigration schemes at the time to the colonies - Australia, Canada, USA.

[josey]

Yes, that is a good way forward; I had so far looked [and thanks for doing so yourself] only in the UK.

ADDED: And of course if one or either emigrated they might have then said their birthplace was Scotland rather than Colombo/Ceylon/East Indies/India. I am beginning to despair 

[Neale1961]

ANd of course if one or either emigrated they might have then said their birthplace was Sctloand rather than Colombo/Ceylon/East Indies/India.

Yes, a ship’s passenger list would likely have them listed as coming from Scotland. I agree, it might be difficult to find them, and if they went off to Ireland, again difficult to track down. On the bright side, you did well to find their birth records, and you now know the mother was Sarah.

One thing I have wondered, is why the father James chose to settle in Aberdeen after he left the army. Both he and his second wife were from Ireland. There must have been some connection to Aberdeen.
Do you know if the Murray family originated in Scotland?

[josey]

No as far as I know it's an Irish family from Co Tipperary. James snr's father [also James of course] was born in ca 1762 in Nenagh.

A thread about him [I originally thought he was born in Co Antrim] - see the last post.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=839182.msg7161770#msg7161770
I have commissioned a researcher to get copies of the mentioned documents at National Archives, Dublin, she will go early August.

Maybe James snr settled in Aberdeen because other army mates were there?

[Neale1961]

Have you tracked down James’ brothers and sisters? Any of them move to Aberdeen?
Maybe his first wife Sarah, had family in Aberdeen?

[josey]

Siblings as far as I know - Judith b 1811 married Michael Hogan in Borrisokane, had 3 children & died ??; Philip my g g grandfather b 1814 was also in 87th discharged 1859 to Cashel on Suir, Tipperary, died 1864; Daniel b ca 1816 was also in 87th and died in 1857 in India. So no Scottish connection there, although Philip was in Dundee Barracks [Dudhope Castle] in 1846 when my g grandfather was born. There may have been another brother John in the 61st who I am following.

It would be good to find out if Sarah died in Ceylon or Scotland. I have looked on overseas deaths with no success. 

Thanks for your continuing interest.

[josey]

Deleted, slip of finger