Adams Family - Margaret b 1904 Sunderland Help needed

[Garry Edgar2]

Folks

I am researching for a friend. She is trying to find the link between her mother and the Parents of Margaret Adams who was born 11-7-1904.

She and her mother have a DNA result which shows that they both descend from a Daughter of Caleb Arthur Adams(b 1884) and Livinia Williams(b1885). We believe that daughter is Margaret, but Margaret did have one sister in the household in the 1911 census. My friends mother grew up in a convent and the records at the convent show that she was admitted by a Margaret Adams.

Margaret Adams married William Scotter(who is not a DNA match) and we believe Margaret dies in the march quarter, 2000. Margaret and William Scotter have one child, Minnie who marries Isaac Joseph Fisher and she dies in the December quarter 1984.

We are looking for an obituary for either -

1. Margaret Scotter - D Q1 2000 Sunderland, Tyne + Wear, and/or
2. Minnie Fisher - D Q4 1984 Sunderland

We have a particular interest in a son of Minnie who is shown on some Adams Family Trees.

I am happy to have any help and private messages about details in the obituaries.

TIA

[Annette7]

Surely your friend's mother's birth certificate will confirm who her mother was??  Has to be better than second guessing whether it is Margaret or Hannah Mary.   Doesn't necessarily follow that because Margaret took her to the convent she was her mother.

I see that Hannah Mary married in London - Christ Church, St. Marylebone - to a Sydney Frederick Thomas Bailey on 18/8/1935 (certificate can be viewed on Ancestry).

Father Caleb Arthur Adams died 1932 Sunderland and mother Lovina remarried to a James F Hewson 1937 Sunderland.   Lovina Hewson died 1967 Sunderland.

Annette

[jonw65]

Minnie who marries Isaac Joseph Fisher and she dies in the December quarter 1984.

Minnie Fisher died at Sunderland District General Hospital
Buried 18 Dec 1984 at Bishopwearmouth Cemetery
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1L-Q7MV-B

[AllanUK]

GaryEdgar2 -- whilst not what you are looking for, I found an article in the Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette (12 November 1948) which mentions Margaret Scotter in a court case. The article can be accessed at Find My Past via the link below:

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000640%2f19481112%2f025&stringtohighlight=margaret%20scotter

[Garry Edgar2]

Surely your friend's mother's birth certificate will confirm who her mother was??  Has to be better than second guessing whether it is Margaret or Hannah Mary.   Doesn't necessarily follow that because Margaret took her to the convent she was her mother.

I see that Hannah Mary married in London - Christ Church, St. Marylebone - to a Sydney Frederick Thomas Bailey on 18/8/1935 (certificate can be viewed on Ancestry).

Father Caleb Arthur Adams died 1932 Sunderland and mother Lovina remarried to a James F Hewson 1937 Sunderland.   Lovina Hewson died 1967 Sunderland.

Annette

It is very confusing. She doesn’t have a birth certificate. She has convent records in the UK and she was then sent to Australia to another convent here. The two institutions have different DOB and there is no birth recorded by BMD in the UK which match with either of her dates.

Her records say that her mother died in 1953, but again there is no matching records.

[Annette7]

I appreciate if still alive you can't name her but can you tell us roughly when she is believed to have been born?

Annette

[Garry Edgar2]

I appreciate if still alive you can't name her but can you tell us roughly when she is believed to have been born?

Annette

1943 I believe.

And based on DNA we know her father was a Canadian Soldier who fought on the Western Front during WW2.

[Annette7]

Right, have been doing some more delving and first, have a couple of questions.

1. Was your friend's Mum born with Adams surname?
2. Where is she said to have been born?

Did she go to Australia in 1953 (when her mother is said to have died which doesn't seem to be true)?

Now, to add to the confusion Caleb Arthur Adams and wife Livinia Williams, had 7 more children after 1911, all in Sunderland:
Caleb Arthur b.16/3/1913
Clara birth Mar.qtr.1915 (she was actually born 27/12/1914)
Sidney born and died 1916
Lovina birth Sept.qtr.1920
Joyce birth Mar.qtr.1922
Henry born 1923, died 1925
Henry born 6/4/1927

It doesn't add up that a Margaret Adams took your friend's Mum to a convent - there was no Margaret Adams in the family at that time (subject in title of this thread was now Margaret Scotter).

Of the 3 other daughters, can't find anything definite regarding Clara after her birth.  Lovina married as Lavinia Adams to a Richard Manns in Sept.qtr.1970 Sunderland (so a late marriage) - she died as Lovina Manns in Mar.qtr.1980 Sunderland.  Joyce married a William Fisher Jun.qtr.1945 Sunderland.

Would seem to me that the mother of your friends Mum likely to be Clara, Lovina or Joyce.

Annette

[Garry Edgar2]

Right, have been doing some more delving and first, have a couple of questions.

1. Was your friend's Mum born with Adams surname?
2. Where is she said to have been born?

Did she go to Australia in 1953 (when her mother is said to have died which doesn't seem to be true)?

Now, to add to the confusion Caleb Arthur Adams and wife Livinia Williams, had 7 more children after 1911, all in Sunderland:
Caleb Arthur b.16/3/1913
Clara birth Mar.qtr.1915 (she was actually born 27/12/1914)
Sidney born and died 1916
Lovina birth Sept.qtr.1920
Joyce birth Mar.qtr.1922
Henry born 1923, died 1925
Henry born 6/4/1927

It doesn't add up that a Margaret Adams took your friend's Mum to a convent - there was no Margaret Adams in the family at that time (subject in title of this thread was now Margaret Scotter).

Of the 3 other daughters, can't find anything definite regarding Clara after her birth.  Lovina married as Lavinia Adams to a Richard Manns in Sept.qtr.1970 Sunderland (so a late marriage) - she died as Lovina Manns in Mar.qtr.1980 Sunderland.  Joyce married a William Fisher Jun.qtr.1945 Sunderland.

Would seem to me that the mother of your friends Mum likely to be Clara, Lovina or Joyce.

Annette

Thanks for all that.

Obviously my friends mum is still alive so won’t name her, but all her convent records had her surname as  Adams. I think she believes she was born nearer to London than Sunderland but I’ll have to double check, but I don’t think she knows.

She always believed her mother put her in the convent because she her mum was unwell. And she says she has no clear memory of her mother. Then she was told that her mum had died and she was going to Australia to a new family.

Which is interesting when you see what a big family she came from.