Author Topic: Henry Wellham abt 1842 Pimlico  (Read 4191 times)

Offline Yvonne Ellis

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Henry Wellham abt 1842 Pimlico
« on: Tuesday 10 August 21 01:24 BST (UK) »
I am having a problem trying to find a birth registration for my gt.gt. grandfather Henry Wellham that fits the limited info I have. The registration for Henry Wellham, Shoreditch 1840 is not my relative, he's the son of a butcher. the other birth registrations are for Suffolk.

I can find him in the 1871 Census -  his birthplace is recorded as Pimlico - born abt.1839 he is now a widower and living with his mother Mary Ann Pell (62) and his daughter Teresa Wellham 8 years.  Henry Wellham married Julia Kelly on 23rd  April 1861, St.Giles Bloomsbury.   The copy of his marriage certificate records his father as Henry Wellham, a Mason.  Both bride and groom's address is Bury Street on the marriage certificate but there is no trace of a Henry Wellham living in Bury Street in the 1881 census, no trace of him anywhere.  I can find his daughter Theresa lodging with her grandmother Mary Ann Pell 15, Union Place Chelsea in the 1881 census. Neither can I find a trace of a senior Henry Wellham.

Just to confuse me even more there is a John and Ann Wellham (formerly Kuneman) living in 15 Union Place Chelsea (with family) in the 1851 census with daughter Mary 38, John 35, Charles 19, Emma 17, Henry 9 (born Hampstead) and a granddaughter Emma Delaney 5 yrs.   John and Ann Wellham are still living there 1861 with son Charles.  There is obviously a family connection to this address, any help will be much appreciated - I've been struggling with this for many years 😕

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Henry Wellham abt 1842 Pimlico
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 10 August 21 10:22 BST (UK) »
Do you know when his parents married?

If he was born beforehand he could be registered under his mothers maiden name so can you trace her back through the census?
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Offline ColC

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Re: Henry Wellham abt 1842 Pimlico
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 10 August 21 11:22 BST (UK) »
The only marriage I can find, near to the information on your post, for Henry Welham senior is in West London,, Q2/1838 possibly to Mary Bell?

WELLHAM, MARGARET  THERESA     KELLY 
GRO Reference: 1863  M Quarter in LAMBETH  Volume 01D  Page 348

WELHAM, JULIA       36 
GRO Reference: 1870  D Quarter in DARTFORD  Volume 02A  Page 221

I cannot find the 1871 census you mention but I guess this is the 1881 below, no place of birth for either. How do you know  Mary Ann Pell was his mother?

Mary Ann   Pell   Head   Widow   Female   68   1813   Washerwoman   -
Theresa   Williams   Lodger   Single   Female   18   1863   Domestic servt   

Colin
Clarke, Trickett, Orton, Lawless, Norton, Detheridge, Kirby, Goodfellow, Wagstaff, Lowe, etc.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Henry Wellham abt 1842 Pimlico
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 10 August 21 11:28 BST (UK) »
He is listed as Henry Weham in 1871. RG10/116 folio 76 page 53
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Offline ColC

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Re: Henry Wellham abt 1842 Pimlico
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 10 August 21 11:55 BST (UK) »
Thanks Rosie.

Colin
Clarke, Trickett, Orton, Lawless, Norton, Detheridge, Kirby, Goodfellow, Wagstaff, Lowe, etc.

Offline Jomot

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Re: Henry Wellham abt 1842 Pimlico
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 10 August 21 13:42 BST (UK) »
Possibly not connected, but there is another marriage in 1861 where a Henry Wel(l)ham of a similar occupation is quoted as the father:

15 Dec 1861, St George in the East,
John Potter, f/a, Bachelor, Grocer, St George St.  Father: William Potter, Farmer
Jane Welham Jacob, f/a, Spinster, Albert St.  Father Henry Welham, Builder
Wits: Walter & Rebecca Jacob

According to the census she was born c1840, Eye, Suffolk, which appears to match with the Jane Jacob(s) aged 2 living in Eye in 1841 along with sister Catherine (1) and various other Jacob(s). 

Possibly their births?
JACOB, JANE no mmn GRO Reference: 1839  D Quarter in HARTISMERE  Volume 13  Page 387
JACOB, CATHERINE no mmn GRO Reference: 1840  J Quarter in HARTISMERE  Volume 13  Page 413

Having said that, there is a Jane Welham Jacob baptised in Diss, Norfolk in 1840, parents William (a Gardener) & Jane.
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Yvonne Ellis

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Re: Henry Wellham abt 1842 Pimlico
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 10 August 21 16:30 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Firstly, apologies for another long post.
Thank you to everyone for responding to my query re. Henry Wellham.  The possible marriage of Henry Welham to Mary Bell is a no-go, I requested a copy of that marriage certificate via GRO sometime ago it seems Henry Welham did not marry Mary Bell, I may still send for that marriage certificate, who knows what it may turn up. 

The only census record I can find with Henry Wellham b.1839 Pimlico is -

1871 - Class: RG10; Piece: 116; Folio: 76; Page: 53; GSU roll: 838767.   Henry is living with his mother Mary Ann Pell abt.1809 born in St.Pancras London.

1881 Census - Class: RG11; Piece: 79; Folio: 51; Page: 37; GSU roll: 1341018 - records  Mary Ann Pell b.1813 in Surrey England and Teresa Welham (Henry's daughter) - no Henry Wellham.

In both the 1871 & 1881 censuses, Mary Ann Pell is recorded as a widow and to date, I have been unable to find a marriage record for a Pell/Wellham (I tried every variation in FreeBMD).  It's possible that Mary Ann Wellham may have married someone else before becoming a Pell. 

1861 Census - Class: RG 9; Piece: 409; Folio: 88; Page: 41; GSU roll: 542632
Here we find a Mary Ann Pell married to John Pell, living in the Lewisham District.
Mary Ann Pell - 1811 - b. Dulwich Surrey, I may not sure if this is the same Mary Ann Pell in 1871 & 1881 census records I found.

There may be a link to the Jane Welham Jacob/John Potter marriage where the father is Henry Welham.  I have no idea when or where Henry Welham SNR. was born.

Going back to the link I have with 15 Union Place and the John Wellham family
1851 Census  - Class: HO107; Piece: 1472; Folio: 526; Page: 53; GSU roll: 87795.
1861 Census  - Class: RG9; Piece: 32; Folio: 119; Page: 57; GSU roll: 542560.

I feel there is more likely a connection there - could John's daughter Mary Ann Welham (b.1813) be Henry's mother or could she be a daugher in law ? and could John and Ann Wellham (formerly Kuneman) be Henry's grandparents?  So many questions so few answers.

Any suggestions of how to proceed with this search will be much appreciated, I have been looking at and researching the same info for so long, I think I maybe stuck in a research rut, so to speak.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my request :)


Offline Lily M

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Re: Henry Wellham abt 1842 Pimlico
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 10 August 21 18:56 BST (UK) »
Regarding the family in Union Place in 1851, in 1841 they are living in St.Pancras, which is where Mary Ann Pell claims to have been born on the 1871.

In 1851 the mother Ann is 57 years old, whereas Henry is only 9.  Ten years younger than his nearest sibling.  Which makes Mary a likely candidate to be his mother.

The John Pell living with Mary Ann was born in Maidstone.  There is a John Pell who died in 1865 in south London, but was buried in Maidstone.

Offline jonw65

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Re: Henry Wellham abt 1842 Pimlico
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 10 August 21 22:20 BST (UK) »
It does look as if Henry's father on the marriage certificate, Henry Wellham, Mason, was probably made up for the occasion.

The Henry Welham who married in 1838 was a widower and a licenced victualler, who married Eliza Gale, 16 June 1838, St Andrew Holborn. Residence for both was in Southwark.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJQ6-V19

Mary Bell married John Joyce there a few days earlier.

Two other birth registrations, are they children of Henry and Julia? And what happened to them? :-\
WELHAM, CHARLOTTE       
Mother's Maiden Surname: KELLY 
GRO Reference: 1861  D Quarter in PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 123

WELLHAM, CHARLES       
Mother's Maiden Surname: KELLY 
GRO Reference: 1865  J Quarter in LAMBETH  Volume 01D  Page 341

Do you have a death certificate for Mary Ann Pell?
Is Julia's death in 1870 confirmed, and also the death of her husband Henry Wellham?
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