Author Topic: Confusion! Possible Name Change - Hogg - Davidson.  (Read 1607 times)

Offline DudelsackHogg

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Re: Confusion! Possible Name Change - Hogg - Davidson.
« Reply #36 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 18:56 BST (UK) »
Don't think this has been mentioned so far.

There is an entry in Newcastle 1871 for a 23 yr old John Chs. (Charles?) Hogg b. Linton ROX., a commercial traveller by occupation. He is showing as boarding in the household. Can't find it on FS to link, ref RG10; Piece: 5074; Folio: 61; Page: 41.

Monica

Thank you. I hadn't seen that record. I found the entry and can see the original on Ancestry. The Chs doesn't really fit, but this tree is full of twists and turns so it may well be.

There is what seems to be quite a well researched tree on Ancestry for the Dunns. It seems to have all the right 1861,1871,1881 census entries for Jean Stewart Dunn .

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/807569/person/-1868747147/facts

I do like the tree name.

I did check the 1855 birth certificate for Jane Stewart Dunn. Not sure that is correct. It records Jane Stewart (illegitimate) Mother Elizabeth Stewart Domestic Servant - not sure of the address. The informant is Mary Finayson Mother.

Going to message the tree owner and direct him to this discussion.

Offline Spidermonkey

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Re: Confusion! Possible Name Change - Hogg - Davidson.
« Reply #37 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 19:06 BST (UK) »
I think that it says Matron, not mother, but I can't quite be sure.

Good idea to message the tree's owner though!

Offline DudelsackHogg

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Re: Confusion! Possible Name Change - Hogg - Davidson.
« Reply #38 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 19:13 BST (UK) »
I think that it says Matron, not mother, but I can't quite be sure.

Good idea to message the tree's owner though!

Oh, I think you might be right. I think it says under 'Where born, if in Lodgings so stated."

Living in Hospital
St Andrews Square
Glasgow
(Domicile Dumbarton) 

So Matron would certainly fit. 


Offline DudelsackHogg

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Re: Confusion! Possible Name Change - Hogg - Davidson.
« Reply #39 on: Thursday 12 August 21 10:52 BST (UK) »
I thought I’d summarise and jot a timeline for John and Jane/Jean/Jeanie.

Speculative - not all confirmed!

  • 1848 - John Hogg baptised 17 December 1848 Linton, Roxburgh
  • 1851 - John Hogg Living in Linton with parents William Hogg and Mary Waldie
  • 1855 - Jane Stewart born 30 July 1855 Living in Hospital Glasgow, St Andrew Square. Domicile Dumbarton.
  • 1859 - Marriage of Jane Stewart’s mother Elizabeth Stewart to David Dunn 22 Oct 1859 • Dumbarton,
  • 1861 - John Hogg living in Kersmains, Roxburgh with parents William Hogg and Mary Waldie
  • 1861 - Jean Stewart - now Jean Dunn living in Green Yard, North Shields, Tynemouth with parents David Dunn (boiler maker), her mother Elizabeth and brother George
  • 1871 - Jane Stewart Dunn  - 142 High Street, Jarrow, South Shields. Living with mother Elizabeth (Charwoman) now widowed and brother George
  • 1877 - John Hogg and Jean Stewart Dunn marriage. John Knox Church, on the 24th Dec 1877. John Hogg, missionary to Jeannie Dunn, Jarrow - Announcement -  Newcastle Courant,  28th December 1877
  • 1878 - John and Jean have a son. William Waldie Hogg, Born 26th November 1878 baptised 4th February 1879 John Knox Church (presbyterian), Newcastle upon Tyne
  • 1881 - John and Jean have a daughter. Mary Elizabeth Stewart Hogg Born 10th December 1880 and baptised 18th January 1881 John Knox Church (presbyterian), Newcastle upon Tyne
  • 1881- John Hogg and Jean Hogg living Byker Parish, 2 Rosedale Place, Newcastle up on Tyne. John - Town Missionary.
  • 1882 - John and Jean have a daughter. Jane Alexandra Phimisterda Hogg born 17th February 1882 and baptised 5th November 1882 John Knox Church (presbyterian), Newcastle upon Tyne. Likely named after Rev. Alexander Phimister minister of the John Knox Presbyterian Church, Newcastle
  • 1884 - John Hogg marries Susie Backman 8th September 1884 in Manhattan, New York
  • 1891 - The three Hogg children are living with their Grandmother Elisabeth Dunn (formerly House Keeper) at Lundin Mill, Fife. William, Mary and Jeanie now have the surname Davidson.
  • 1896- Jane Stewart Davidson or Hogg (widow) 36 marries John A Ayre 6th Feb 1896 Morningside Road. Jeanie’s parents recorded as David Davidson, annuitant, deceased and Elizabeth Davidson, subsequently Dunn, m.s. Stewart
  • 1901 - Jean Ayre 388 Morningside Road, Edinburgh with daughter Jean A P Davidson
  • 1905 - Marriage announcement of daughter Mary Eizabeth Stewart Davidson to George Robertson Brown -  Evening News 2 Sept 1905 announcement ‘eldest daughter of the late William Davidson, church missionary and Mrs Ayre, 388 Morningside Road, Edinburgh’
  • 1905 - 1st September 1905  marriage of Mary Eizabeth Stewart Davidson to George Robertson Brown - St Mathews Church, Braid Road, Edinburgh. Mary’s usual residence 388 Morningside Road. Father given as William Davidson -Church missionary (deceased) mother Jean Davidson ms Stewart. Witnesses William Davidson and Jean S Ayre.



So did John run off to New York when his children were small and remarry? Is this abandonment the reason for the name change and why the father is later recorded as William Davidson, perhaps something Jean told the children as in theory she would be marrying bigamously? I couldn’t find a GRO death for a John Hogg in Newcastle 1882-1891, widening that search though.
I had thought I was looking at two John Hogg’s but the timeline does fit for them to be the same person. There is still nothing concrete that says this John Hogg is my 3x Great grand-uncle, really all based on the middle name of Waldie.

Missing, and what I’d love to find, the 1891 Census location of Jean Stewart - we know where her children are but where is Jean? Jean’s death certificate - will be interesting what the informant knows - and John’s death certificate. 1861 Census for John Hogg, may well be the John Ch Hogg, found earlier, not found any other contenders so far.

I will update the board with anything I find.[/list]

Offline Spidermonkey

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Re: Confusion! Possible Name Change - Hogg - Davidson.
« Reply #40 on: Thursday 12 August 21 14:11 BST (UK) »
It might be worth putting a post on the USA board, with a link to this chain of messages so there is no duplication of efforts, to request help with the American investigations into John and Susie Hogg.

Offline DudelsackHogg

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Re: Confusion! Possible Name Change - Hogg - Davidson.
« Reply #41 on: Thursday 12 August 21 18:48 BST (UK) »
It might be worth putting a post on the USA board, with a link to this chain of messages so there is no duplication of efforts, to request help with the American investigations into John and Susie Hogg.

I did as you suggested.

Link to that thread.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=851965

Hopefully that will lead to something.

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Confusion! Possible Name Change - Hogg - Davidson.
« Reply #42 on: Sunday 15 August 21 16:36 BST (UK) »

John and Jeannie appear to have 2, perhaps 3 children.

William Waldie Hogg - 1878
Mary Elizabeth Stewart Hogg - 1880
Jane Hogg - 1882

(can't find any middle names for Jane, which makes her look different to the other two).


Baptisms
John Knox Church (presbyterian), Newcastle upon Tyne
John & Jane

William Waldie Hogg
born 26th November 1878 (transcription only, says 1879)
baptised 4th February 1879

Mary Elizabeth Stewart Hogg
born 10th December 1880 (says 1881)
baptised 18th January 1881

Jane Alexandra Phimisterda Hogg
born 17th February 1882
baptised 5th November 1882

I have just come across this

England & Wales, Civil Divorce Records, 1858-1918

John Hogg
Record Type:   Divorce
Type:   Wife's petition
Petition Date:   1884
Spouse:   Jane Hogg
Petition filed 13th Feb 1884

some details from above

marriage certificate (true copy certified 22nd May 1884)

24 Dec 1877 John Knox Church West Clayton Street

John HOGG 28 single, Town Missionary, 6 Bryson Terrace Newcastle
Father John , cattle dealer

Jane DUNN 22 single, 38 Crown Street Newcastle
Father William, Rivetter

Witnesses James S Watt & Jane Lockie


John HOGG was a Missionary engaged by the Newcastle Town Mission
but now carries or lately carried on business as a Tobacconist in Kelso, Scotland.

They cohabited in Newcastle and have THREE children named

William Waldie Hogg age five
Mary Elizabeth Stewart Hogg age three and
Jane Alexandria Phinister Hogg aged 2

Alleged to have committed adultery with Elizabeth TURNER month of Nov & January 1882
frequently accompanied ET from the Rosedale Street Mission Rooms to Byker

8 Feb 1882 alleged to have committed adultery with Alice Turner

Details from his wife on being ill treated after their marriage
Document signed by Jane Hogg dated 12 Feb 1884

I’ve added the link if you have access to Anc*y so can can read all the details.
If you don't have access and want to see them please feel free to send me a PM with your email address and I’ll send the info. to you http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qub/






Offline Spidermonkey

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Re: Confusion! Possible Name Change - Hogg - Davidson.
« Reply #43 on: Sunday 15 August 21 18:47 BST (UK) »
That is fantastic info, Ladyhawk!!!

Although, my first question when looking at the names of the ladies that John consorted with - were they sisters?  mother and daughter?  :o

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Confusion! Possible Name Change - Hogg - Davidson.
« Reply #44 on: Sunday 15 August 21 21:05 BST (UK) »
Is the thinking that John Hogg lied on his marriage reg to Jane in 1877 by giving his father as a John Hogg, cattle dealer rather than William Hogg, farm servant/gardener?

Ladyhawk, your divorce document find certainly answers so much about what has been discussed here  ;)

Monica
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