Author Topic: Mothers Lineage  (Read 1314 times)

Offline dave-w

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Re: Mothers Lineage
« Reply #36 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 09:49 BST (UK) »
thank you Maddys52 i had different data  until my older sister told me i was wrong that is why i am scratching head i am ordering marraige  cert for myself be lot easier to follow

cheers dave

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Mothers Lineage
« Reply #37 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 10:39 BST (UK) »
This may well be completely wrong – but I'm looking forward to the marriage cert, to confirm or eliminate this train of thought

•   Death for a John MATTHEWS in 1890 at Blayney  NSW
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/215946488/john-matthews
•   In the NSW Birth index I see children born in Carcoar to John MATTHEWS and his wife Harriet. James? 1854,  Ann 1856, Henry 1859, Elizabeth 1861, John 1864
•   Immigration of John Matthews and Harriet in June 1853 on board “Australia” with children Mary 7, Sarah 5, and William 2.
John is a farm labourer born in USA and Harriet is from Somerset
•   1851 census for John Matthews and Harriet in Somerset
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGGB-9K3
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland)

Offline majm

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Re: Mothers Lineage
« Reply #38 on: Wednesday 11 August 21 23:38 BST (UK) »
Civil registration of bdm events commenced in NSW in 1856.   

BUT ....Re marriage registrations  until around 1890s, the depth of detail forwarded to the NSW BDM Registrar Generals Office was only a summary,  and often did NOT include all the info found on the original church record. 

NSW bdm website does mention this, but it's hidden away.

And, although before WWI (So from around 1912-1915ish) the NSWBDM started to "reconcile" their sparse marriage info with the original   church records,  that project was set aside as those NSW BDM clerks were needed as clerks in AIF base records. 

NSW government has not ever provided adequate funding to complete that project.

So, 1912-1915  most of the project concentrated on reconciling the churches in metro Sydney.   

The church record does have  full details,  but if a rural locality, as a general rule,  the NSW BDM won't have all the info.  So best advice is to figure out which actual church the couple married in, and then chase down the church records.   

So don't waste dollars on real deal certificate, just get official transcription.  It will have same info without fancy watermark.  Cheaper etc.  It will have name of clergyman and where ceremony was held.  (Clues to help locate the church records)

A number of years ago I prepared a thread, now on the resources board, on how to  overcome the elusive blanks on NSW bdm.

But please do not expect that NSW bdm marriage certs will be informative if for a marriage in rural NSW 1856 to 1895. 

There is at least one further step.
 

JM  ADD ...on e reader, can't copy my live link to that thread, sorry.
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Offline majm

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Re: Mothers Lineage
« Reply #39 on: Thursday 12 August 21 00:09 BST (UK) »
my puter now

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0

ADD
Some detailed information, hopefully to explain what should be in the various blank spots.

The elusive missing details would be those from columns 5, 7, 9, 10 of the NSWBDM certificates.

Column 5 gives the Birth places for the groom and the bride, Note, NSW was often recorded as NS Wales.  This is not Wales, as in the United Kingdom.  It is definitely the then usual abbreviation for New South Wales. 

Column 7 gives the then ages of the groom and bride  (note if bride was not yet 21 years, then the name of the person giving consent should appear in the section giving details of the church in which the marriage was celebrated, and thus may be included in certificates that have not yet been reconciled).

Column 9 gives Father’s name, Mother’s name and maiden surname (groom’s father, following by groom’s mother, then bride’s father and followed by bride’s mother)

Column 10 gives  : Father’s occupation (groom’s father shows above bride’s father) and if either father’s were deceased, this is often noted too.

If the NSW BDM has completed the Reconciliation process for those marriages 1856-1895, then the certified copy (from NSW BDM) shows in the far right lower column:  “Particulars in Columns 5, 7, 9, 10 obtained from Church Register (and the particular number) and then the signature of the clerk at the Registrar General’s office, with initials from various other clerks who have checked each particular.  Then the date of that reconciliation and various clerical numberings.....

So the elusive blanks are of course the ones that help advance family history researchings.... and hopefully explain my concerns re the wording of that paragraph on the NSW BDM website re the "all available information" ....  ;)

"As only limited information is available to view online, you have the option to purchase a Family History Certificate for all available information."

Cheers,  JM


JM
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Offline dave-w

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Re: Mothers Lineage
« Reply #40 on: Thursday 12 August 21 00:31 BST (UK) »
thanx majm very informative will try this way you have written about


cheers dave

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Mothers Lineage
« Reply #41 on: Thursday 12 August 21 00:50 BST (UK) »
Depending on the accuracy of the information on the d/c so far we have:

Sarah Ann died in 1895 aged 41 years which means she was born around 1854.

She had been in NSW for 37 years, so that means she came to NSW at about 4 years of age, more than likely with her parents.

Therefore a family group of Matthews arrived in NSW around 1858.

The family Neale found in 1853 looks possible. Though the mother is Harriet, I have found many incorrect mothers on d/cs. Another possibility is that Mary Gordon died and John remarried Harriet before leaving England.

The adults should all appear on the 1851 census, so when the marriage certificate arrives we can try to track them down back in England.

Please let us know when it arrives.  :)

Added: freebmd has marriages in 1850 in West Brom which includes a John Matthews and a Mary Gordon, but I don’t know if they married each other. :-\

Offline dave-w

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Re: Mothers Lineage
« Reply #42 on: Thursday 12 August 21 00:56 BST (UK) »
Thank ruskie majm suggested  i go thru church  records would be better  so i am exploring that option instead of bdm as majm said being carcoar which is country be better of



cheers dave

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Mothers Lineage
« Reply #43 on: Thursday 12 August 21 01:02 BST (UK) »
Thank ruskie majm suggested  i go thru church  records would be better  so i am exploring that option instead of bdm as majm said being carcoar which is country be better of



cheers dave

Yes of course, follow JM’s good advice. Let us know what you find.

Offline majm

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Re: Mothers Lineage
« Reply #44 on: Thursday 12 August 21 01:35 BST (UK) »
You need to know which clergyman and/or which Church, and then you need to know where the church register has been archived.   Sometimes it has been filmed or at least transcribed and it is that image that is held by the SAG or the State or National Public Library and or the local family history group.  BUT you need to know which clergyman and which denomination in the Carcoar district.


The clergy and the denomination will be on the Official transcription of the NSW BDM, so I suggest unless you already know those details (eg from a newspaper cutting at trove) that you do proceed with obtaining an official transcription.  The info on it takes you to the next step....

JM.
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
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