Author Topic: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884  (Read 817 times)

Offline DudelsackHogg

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John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« on: Thursday 12 August 21 18:46 BST (UK) »
It has been suggested that I post on the American board in the hope that you guys will be able to help.

I am looking into my 3x Great grand-uncle John Hogg who was born in born in Linton Roxburghshire and baptised at Morebattle Free Church on 17 December 1848.

His parents were William Hogg and Mary Waldie.

There is an marriage entry 1884 -  and a John Hogg marries Susie Backman on the 8th September 1884 in Manhattan, New York

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24SH-SJG

Johnís parents are listed as Willam Hogg and Mary Waldie.
His birth place is Roxburghshire. The estimated birth year is out but it is an estimate. A pretty good match.

Susie Backman is listed as a widower and her parents are Oliver Abrams and Susie Syring. I think she was previously married to Albert Bachman - marriage date 29th June 1879.

There is a possibility that John Hogg left his wife (Jean Stewart) and young family and bigamously married Susie.

This John Hogg was a church missionary so travel may well have been part of his job. It seems likely John Hogg was involved with the John Knox Presbyterian Church in Newcastle. If this is the case, John would have left his family after 1882 when his third daughter was born or may have left when Jean Stewart was pregnant 1881.

Link to the previous thread:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=851864.0

Iíd love to find something else on John Hogg and Susie Backman. So far I have found nothing other than the marriage.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #1 on: Friday 13 August 21 00:59 BST (UK) »
No trace of them so far.

Susan Abrams and Albert Bachman had at least 3 daughters. Susie Matilda b 24 Jul 1880, Alberta b about 1881, and Florence, b about 1883. I thought by looking for them I might at least find Susan (Abrams) Bachman Hogg. But I didn't. 

And no trace of Albert Bachman, dying or otherwise, in NYC after their 1880 census and the birth of the daughters.

Here are a few records of Susan's daughters, anyway.

Alberta's marriage
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24S6-F9N
Susie Matilda's birth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HQ17-K9ZM
Florence's marriage
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24SY-5KN


Offline amondg

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #2 on: Friday 13 August 21 08:40 BST (UK) »
Death of daughter Florence (married Henry Ziegler 27 October 1902) gives birth date of 14 June 1883, she died 30 July 1921. No children.


Offline oldohiohome

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #3 on: Friday 13 August 21 08:45 BST (UK) »
not much help here, either, unless you recognize an occupation.

New York City Directory
1884 no John Hogg

1886
John Hogg, carpenter, home 534 W 35th
John Hogg, janitor, home 444 W 57th

1888
John Hogg, dry goods at 115 Worth, home Mass.
[does that mean he lives in Massachusetts?]

1889
John Hogg, dry goods at 115 Worth, home Mass.

1891
John Hogg, dry goods at 115 Worth, home Mass.
John Hogg, laborer, home 1 Amsterdam Ave

-----------
as for the dry goods man, it would have been nice if they said what part of Massachusetts he lived in, if that is what they were referring to. I looked for him there, but there wasn't much to go on and I didn't find him.

Offline DudelsackHogg

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #4 on: Friday 13 August 21 09:41 BST (UK) »
Fantastic thank you.

Itís interesting seeing all the names.
Living in Germany (Dudelsack is the German word for bagpipes) I recognise some of these names as of German origin.
Ziegler, Ferdinand Kauzler(?), Bachmann.
I would say this sounds like an Austrian/South German community (possibly even Jewish - Abrams?) in New York.

Ziegler - there is a chain of bakeries called Ziegler in Bavaria - think it has to do with brick making.

Bachmann - Bach means a stream or a burn as we would say in Scotland.

John Hogg seems a little out of place here. Especially if he is the Presbyterian missionary. But I guess New York has always been a melting pot of nationalities and beliefs.

Frustratingly, Iím travelling and away from my computer so wonít be able to chase all this up. My brain is already racing with this new information and thinking about new searches.

Thank you.

Offline DudelsackHogg

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #5 on: Friday 13 August 21 09:46 BST (UK) »
not much help here, either, unless you recognize an occupation.

New York City Directory
1884 no John Hogg

1886
John Hogg, carpenter, home 534 W 35th
John Hogg, janitor, home 444 W 57th

1888
John Hogg, dry goods at 115 Worth, home Mass.
[does that mean he lives in Massachusetts?]

1889
John Hogg, dry goods at 115 Worth, home Mass.

1891
John Hogg, dry goods at 115 Worth, home Mass.
John Hogg, laborer, home 1 Amsterdam Ave

-----------
as for the dry goods man, it would have been nice if they said what part of Massachusetts he lived in, if that is what they were referring to. I looked for him there, but there wasn't much to go on and I didn't find him.

Interesting. I donít think the carpenter fits. His father was a agricultural labourer/hind/gardener. Most of the family is connected to farming, one son goes on to become a baker. There are quite a few labourers in my tree.

Thanks for all your help.

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #6 on: Friday 13 August 21 10:05 BST (UK) »
Alberta Bachman Carstens
Birth    18 Mar 1883 New York City, New York
Father:   Albert G Bachman Mother:   Susan J Abrams
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007

1920 US census Alberta B Carstens bc1884 with husband William & children
also stepson Albert Kanzler
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M4PV-SHR

1930 US https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X484-B6H

1940 US https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4PL-H5L

W. M. Carstens
Death Age:   63
Birth Place:   Hoboken
Residence Place:   Dumont
Death Date:   Abt 1944
Death Place:   15 Niagara Street, Dumont
Obituary Date:   4 May 1944
Obituary Place:   Hackensack, New Jersey, USA
Spouse:   Alberta Carstens
one of the 4 children named Child:   
Private A Kanzler
U.S., Newspapers.com Obituary Index

Albert Bachman Kanzler Age:   32
Birth Date:   14 Mar 1908
Birth Place:   Bronx, N.Y.
Residence Place:   Dumont, Bergen, New Jersey
Registration Date:   16 Oct 1940
Registration Place:   Dumont, Bergen County, New Jersey, USA
Employer:   General Accident Insurance Co.
Height:   5''-11"
Weight:   160
Complexion:   Light
Hair Color:   Brown
Eye Color:   Blue
Next of Kin:   Mrs E M Kanzler

he died 1984
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/140482886/albert-b.-kanzler

Edit to add

William M Carstens
Marriage License Date:   11 Jan 1916
Marriage License Place:   Bronx, New York City, New York, USA
Spouse:   Alberta B Kanzler

Alberta is living with Aunt & Uncle John & Louise
1900 US https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSVH-WVJ

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #7 on: Friday 13 August 21 10:21 BST (UK) »
Alberta Bachman Carstens
W. M. Carstens
Death Age:   63
Birth Place:   Hoboken
Residence Place:   Dumont
Death Date:   Abt 1944
Death Place:   15 Niagara Street, Dumont
Obituary Date:   4 May 1944
Obituary Place:   Hackensack, New Jersey, USA
Spouse:   Alberta Carstens
one of the 4 children named Child:   
Private A Kanzler
U.S., Newspapers.com Obituary Index

Obituary - The Record Hackensack, New Jersey
3 May 1944, Wed    Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/83351705/obituary-for-william-m-carstens/

Obituary - The Record Hackensack, New Jersey
4 May 1944, Thu    Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/83351732/obituary-for-w-m-carstens-aged-63/

Sandra
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Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #8 on: Friday 13 August 21 10:28 BST (UK) »
As Alberta was niece to John & Louisa perhaps John is related to Albert G

This appears to be his marriage index

John M. Buchmann
Spouse Name:   Louisa C. Zetsche
Marriage Date:   1889 Manhattan, New York, New York

John Martin Bachmann Age:   22
Birth Place:   New Jersey
Residence Address:   W. 40th St. N. Y.
Occupation:   Butcher
Certificate Number:   5616
Spouse:   Louisa Bachmann
Child:   John Martin Bachmann 13 Feb 1890 Manhatten NY