Author Topic: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884  (Read 2131 times)

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 15 August 21 22:43 BST (UK) »
For info.

One of Henry & Susan’s children give her middle name as Jane

Lillian Stout
Birth Date:   7 Aug 1892 Manhattan, New York City
Residence Address:   2d-Avenue 614
Certificate Number:   30327
Father:   Henry H. Stout
Mother:   Susan Jane Stout
Mother Maiden Name:   Abram

Couldn’t find details of birth for Florence Stout born Jun 1883 New York from 1900 census
but found the other children

This appears to be Henry & Susan’s marriage (no details on parents names)

Henry W Stout age 23
Occupation Telegraph
Birth Place:   N Jersey
Residence Place:   N Y
Marriage 27 Sep 1885   New York
Spouse:   Susan J Blackman age 23
Birth Place L Island
Remarks
A.J. Murphy & Annie Murphy
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline DudelsackHogg

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 15 August 21 23:03 BST (UK) »
Thank you for all your work here, I haven’t had the time yet to go through all your findings. Hopefully I’ll have some time in the next few days to put together a tree and try and make sense of everything and to see what else I can find out.

I started looking at John Hogg as I’ve ordered a dna kit, still waiting for the results, and I wanted to build out my tree to see if it could help narrow down John’s grandfather. John has been fascinating and it will be interesting to see if I get some American hits and where that leads.

I really do appreciate all your work and I’m sorry I’ve been a little absent in this discussion board. I probably chose the wrong time to start the discussion - holidays, family time and a break from lockdown life. Thanks again.

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 15 August 21 23:50 BST (UK) »
Please come back and let us know if you discover more…….

Again for info….. might this be Susan that married Henry Stout

Susan J Abrams
Age in 1870:   8
Birth Date:   abt 1862
Birthplace:   New York
Dwelling Number:   549
Home in 1870:   North Hempstead, Queens, New York
Race:   White
Gender:   Female
Post Office:   Port Washington
Attended School:   Yes
Oliver Abrams 50
Eliza Abrams 45

might this be her brother Oliver (apologies Sandra didn’t see you had already posted death)

There this death record for Oliver Abrams b1848
parents Oliver & Eliza SEERING

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W1S-Z32




Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #30 on: Monday 16 August 21 00:51 BST (UK) »

Oliver Abrams  born 1 January 1846 - shown on those census died 724 Harding Park Manhattan - 4 November 1928
Burial - 8 November 1928 Mt Olivet Cemetery.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W1S-Z3K

Sandra

This could be a remarried Henry W Stout (undertaker)  in 1930 Bronx (Districts 251-500), Bronx, New York,

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7DT-RZG

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RZD-X1T?i=9&cc=1810731&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AX7DT-RZG

Ada B Stout died 15 September 1936 Staten Island, New York City, New York.
Husband Henry Stout - parents- father George Blanck and mother Ellen Morrow.

 

Sandra
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada


Offline *Sandra*

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #31 on: Monday 16 August 21 01:21 BST (UK) »

son Robert W Stout died 18 December 1931  Burial 18 th December Ferncliff.
Henry W Stout and Susan Jane Abrams. Married 1 July 1905 to Madeline Mathews.

marriage - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F6H8-QN6?from=lynx1UIV8&treeref=94HT-MXH

death - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WK9-RBG

A few infant deaths......  :'(

Lloyd Roswell Stout - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WWX-B2C

Gladys Stout - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WX2-9N6

Samuel Addison Stout - twin -- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W6N-P2Q

Ida Olive Stout - twin - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W6N-DSR



Sandra
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada

Offline DudelsackHogg

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #32 on: Friday 27 August 21 11:16 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone. I wanted to thank you all again for your input and contributions, really wonderful.

I am still finding the American records tricky to navigate. The American census entries are great, so much more information recorded.

My DNA results came through and they do seem to confirm that I am related to the John Hogg who was in Newcastle before running off to New York. The marriage entry for John Hogg and Susie Bachmann really makes me think it is the same John Hogg.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24SH-SJG


I have been going over again all your contributions and putting all the pieces together. I am confused here by the birth dates of Florence and Alberta.

Susan Abrams and Albert Bachman had at least 3 daughters. Susie Matilda b 24 Jul 1880, Alberta b about 1881, and Florence, b about 1883.


Death of daughter Florence (married Henry Ziegler 27 October 1902) gives birth date of 14 June 1883, she died 30 July 1921. No children.


Alberta Bachman Carstens
Birth    18 Mar 1883 New York City, New York
Father:   Albert G Bachman Mother:   Susan J Abrams
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007

The second two entries have Florence being born on the 14th June 1883 and Alberta on the 18th of March 1883. Clearly these records are conflicting or suggest a mix up. Am I mistaken, did I miss a connection? You guys were so fast for me I had a little trouble following along, still making sense of it all.  :)

I am currently going through my DNA matches, I do have quite a lot of hits in America and I’m trying to connect some dots.

Thanks again.

Offline DudelsackHogg

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Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« Reply #33 on: Friday 13 May 22 15:07 BST (UK) »
I’ve been looking again John Hogg and Susie Bachmann. The NY records are being digitised and I believe about 70 percent are now online.

They can be found here:
https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov

I was able to see the original marriage certificate of John Hogg and Susie Bachmann (registrar wrote Backman - she signed Bachmann), it lists his profession as missionary and I am now certain that this is my 3x Great grand uncle.
https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/2312606

The NY records search function is a bit hit or miss. Seeing the original documents spurred me on to research Susie further. I have been able to confirm most of your amazing work. I wasn’t able to see the obituaries when posted previously but have now been able to read them. The mentioning of a sister Mrs Winifred Blake of the Bronx in the obituary of Alberta B Carstens was really the key to connecting the dots.


Just to recap the thread (mostly for my benefit) and adding some extra links:
 
Susan Jane Abrams born 1861 - later census says April 1863

Father: Oliver Abrams
Mother: Eliza Syring (Seering) - Name given as Sarah on Susan’s first marriage cert and Susie on the second and Eliza on brother Oliver’s death certificate.

Possible census record showing Oliver and Eliza with Susan:

1870 North Hempstead, Queens, New York
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M8VB-KMV


1860 North Hempstead, Queens, New York
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MC4Q-TMN


Susan Married Albert Bachmann (not sure of his profession - looks like varnisher) on the 29th June 1879
https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/2238637

They had 3 children:

     1. Susie Matilda Bachmann 1880
     https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/14080771

     2. Alberta Bachmann  1881

     3. Florence Bachmann 1883
     https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/60368


Albert Bachmann dies 10 Feb 1883


Susan then marries John Hogg missionary on the 8th September 1884 - first link


One year later she married Henry Stout on the 27th September 1885
Vol 346-348: NYC: Seventh Street Church: Baptism, Marriage and Other Records,1785-1911

And one month after the marriage to Henry -

     4. Robert Stout was born in October 1885 - ref 1900 NY Manhattan census

More children followed:

     5. Madeline Stout 1886
     6. William Henry Stout 1889
     7. Frederick Stout 1891
     8. Lillian Stout 1892
     9. Ida Olive Stout 1894
     10. Samuel Addison Stout 1894
     11. Oliver Stout 1895
     12. Winifred R Stout 1898
     13. Lloyd Roswell Stout 1900
     14. Gladys Stout 1904


On Lloyd’s 1900 birth certificate the following is recorded:
https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/1952049

Lloyd Roswell Stout
323 East 77th Street
Father Henry W Stout Birthplace New Jersey Occupation Insurance Agent
Mothers Name Susan J Stout ms Abrahams Birthplace Long Island
Number of previous children 13 how many living 9

On Gladys’s 1904 birth certificate the following is recorded:
https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/1978592

Gladys Stout
1504 Second Avenue
Father Henry W Stout Birthplace NY City Age 40 Occupation Undertaker.
Mother Susie Stout ms Abrams number of previous children 13 how many living 8.

This suggests the 1930 Bronx census entry for Henry W Stout (undertaker) and Ada is correct.


Winifred R Hall marries Christopher J Blake 8 November 1934 certificate number 26914
https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/3176360


Her father listed as Henry W and mother as Susan Abrams. She is listed as single but I think she was previously married to James Hall and had a daughter Ruth L Hall with him.

In the 1920 census we see:

Henry W Stout - Head
Susan J Stout - Wife
Oliver W Stout - Son
James Hall - Head
Winifred W Hall - wife
Ruth L Hall - daughter
Oliver Abrams -  brother in law

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MJGP-N6Y

I still don’t know what happened to John Hogg, I haven’t found a death certificate for him in New York or any outward passengers lists with his name. I do wonder if John is the father of Robert Stout born in 1885 or if the father is Henry W Stout. The timing certainly fits for John.

I looked at Robert Stout and I think he marries a Madeline Mathews. They have two children Walter and Josephine. I’ve been hoping to connect via DNA to them but so far have not found anything. Perhaps one day I’ll get a hit, in the meantime I’m looking at uploading my test to other sites to broaden my search.

It’s been an interesting journey with the American records, a lot of little inconsistencies and uncertainties.

I want to thank you all again for your efforts. Much appreciated.