John Daniels m. 20 Oct 1861

[baileyscusa]

The family is also in the same area in both the 1881 and 1891 Censuses, and the place of birth for John Daniels is consistently shown as Southwark, Surrey.

1881 Census - Southwark St George Martyr - Borough Road - District 6
Address - 5 Princess Place, Southwark
John Daniels - Head - Mar - 39 - Boiler Maker - b. Surrey, Southwark
Susan Daniels - Wife - Mar - 36 - b. Surrey, Southwark
John Daniels - Son - 17 - Printer - b. Surrey, Southwark
William H Daniels - Son - 15 - Printers Boy - b. Surrey, Southwark
Susan Daniels - Dau - 13 - Scholar - b. Surrey, Southwark
Alfred Daniels - Son - 10 - Scholar - b. Surrey, Walworth
Benjamin Daniels - Son - 8 - Scholar - b. Surrey, Bermondsey
George Daniels - Son - 5 - Scholar - b. Surrey, Southwark
Jane Daniels - Dau - 1 - b. Surrey, Southwark

1891 Census - Christchurch - Christchurch Southwark - District Blackfriars Lodging House
John Daniels - Married - 50 - Engineer - b. Southwark, London

1891 Census - St George the Martyr - Kent Road - District 14
Address - Townsend Street, Southwark
Susan Daniels - Married - 48 - London, Southwark
William H Daniels - Son - 25 - occ. Z___?? - London, Southwark
Susan Daniels - Dau - 23 - Fancy Box Maker - London, Newington
Benjamin Daniels - Son - 18 - Coachman Groom - London, Bermondsey
Jane Daniels - Dau - 10 - Scholar - London, Southwark

I also have all the birth certificates for the children (apart from William H, which I can't find for some reason) and they all show Prole as MMN.  I just find it strange that there's no record of a John Daniels that fits prior to the wedding in 1861. I could imagine maybe a missing part of the Census for one year but not multiple Censuses.

Anyway thanks again for the replies!

[rosie99]

I also have all the birth certificates for the children (apart from William H, which I can't find for some reason)

Birth registration did not become the responsibility of the parent until the late 1870' s so it is possible that his birth was never registered

[baileyscusa]

Well it seems like this might be a bit of a brick wall - does anyone have any suggestions of other records I could try to look for that might help?

Or are there any other archives that might carry additional resources that the big online databases don't carry? I noticed the Southwark Archives but haven't reached out to them yet.

Thanks for any suggestions!

[Comberton]

In case you don't have this
Is this your William H?
Baptism
William Henry Daniels
born 4th March 1866
baptised 1st April 1866
St Saviour, Southwark
John (boiler maker) & Susan of Suffolk Street

[baileyscusa]

Thanks Comberton! That certainly fits with all the records that I have - do you have a source you could share?

[Comberton]

London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1920
Transcription and image on Ancestry

[Neale1961]

1881 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-7DKV

Another child’s Baptism? https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQCL-X7M

On his marriage, I suspect John lied about his age, and he was not of full age, but under age.
Here is a birth registration that needs further research. (Mothers name Manfield)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2NQY-735

[baileyscusa]

Thanks Neale 1961 - I hadn't found Alice Jane before - and the address is a match for where George (1875) and Jane Sarah (1879) were born, and also the 1881 Census. Free BMD doesn't show it which I guess suggests the birth wasn't registered.

And I'll definitely check into that potential John Daniell record.

Thanks again for the help!

[baileyscusa]

I was too quick on the reply - I found the Birth record on Free BMD under Daniels, rather than Daniel.

Sadly also a Death record from a few months later in Mar 1879.