Author Topic: Puzzling marriage record  (Read 1582 times)

Online Girl Guide

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Puzzling marriage record
« on: Tuesday 17 August 21 16:02 BST (UK) »
Does anyone have any idea as to what may be going on here?

There is a marriage in the JQ 1949 Weston 7c 835 on freebmd.

Clicking on 835 shows three names these being Frank Brooks, Bessie F. Shrives and Mary E. Shrives. The other couple match up, no stray names attached to them.

Find My Past has Frank Brooks joined up with Bessie F Shrives only.  No mention of Mary.

Checking the original typed copy just shows Shrives as the other half of the marriage.  If you check the typed copy for Shrives you get Bessie F and Mary E with the other half being Brooks and same district, volume and page number.

At the moment I don't wish to go to the extent of buying the marriage certificate as I am doing a little research for a friend of mine.

I can find a likely birth for a Bessie Florence Shrives in DQ 1904 Paddington.  A possible for Mary is one in 1900 as Mary Elizabeth Shrives in Bolton.

Suggestions welcome.  I'm not sure if this marriage would be visible in its entirety online.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Online AntonyMMM

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Re: Puzzling marriage record
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 17 August 21 16:19 BST (UK) »
It would suggest the bride appears on the entry under both names ....probably with "otherwise" or "formerly" .....but you can't know for certain without getting a certificate.

Online Girl Guide

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Re: Puzzling marriage record
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 17 August 21 16:30 BST (UK) »
Ok thanks for that Antony.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline bbart

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Re: Puzzling marriage record
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 17 August 21 18:11 BST (UK) »
There is a possible death registration for that Mary Elizabeth Shrives in Bolton, in 1902.

I would have thought the 1939 would have been helpful as it kept up with name changes for years, but the only Bessie Shrives I could find was originally a Bessie White married to Albert Shrives.  Albert died in 1942  so.... could the Bessie you seek have been married before?  This Bessie and Albert had two minors blacked out.

Does your friend have a guestimate of their ages?


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Re: Puzzling marriage record
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 17 August 21 18:23 BST (UK) »
That is interesting bbart.  I am investigating the Brooks family for my friend and all she had was the name of her grandmother Ethel Mary Brooks born in 1911.  Unfortunately the birth was after the 1911 but her mother's maiden name was Coomer.

I found a marriage of a Frank Brooks to an Alberta Coomer.  Frank seems to have married three times the first being to Alberta followed by one in 1928 to Harriet Goverd and possibly to Bessie Shrives.

I'll have to get back to my friend and find out whether spending money on certificates is going to be considered worthwhile.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: Puzzling marriage record
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 17 August 21 19:24 BST (UK) »
There is a possible death registration for that Mary Elizabeth Shrives in Bolton, in 1902.

I would have thought the 1939 would have been helpful as it kept up with name changes for years, but the only Bessie Shrives I could find was originally a Bessie White married to Albert Shrives.  Albert died in 1942  so.... could the Bessie you seek have been married before?  This Bessie and Albert had two minors blacked out.

Does your friend have a guestimate of their ages?

That's confusing - Bessie Shrives b Paddington had a brother Albert Henry. I thought the couple Albert Henry and Bessie living in Cheam might have been brother and sister, but are you suggesting that there's also a married couple Albert & Bessie?

Bessie in Cheam never moved from there and died as Shrives

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Re: Puzzling marriage record
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 17 August 21 19:46 BST (UK) »
I think bbart is on the right lines.

I'm guessing that Frank married Bessie who was Albert's widow.  As bbart has said Albert died in 1942.  The only way to really know is to get the marriage cert.

Doesn't explain why Mary E Shrives appears to be attached to Frank.  ???

I can't really move on until I have spoken to my friend and checked to see whether buying any certificates is on the menu.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline jonw65

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Re: Puzzling marriage record
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 17 August 21 20:36 BST (UK) »
Bessie married to Albert was nee White.

I can find a likely birth for a Bessie Florence Shrives in DQ 1904 Paddington. 

There is a baptism for her at St Thomas Kensal Town, 16 Oct 1904
Parents Leonard and Florence.
Father a Hosier.
Date of birth Sept 16 1904

Wild speculation
Put that d-o-b, plus/minus a couple of years, into the 1939 Register
Elizabeth M Shrives, born 16 Sept 1905, up in Yorkshire.
Address Bridgfield, Brayton, Selby R.D.
Don't think she is married.

There is later a death in Somerset
March 1997, Sedgemoor
Elizabeth Mary Brooks
d-o-b 16 Sept 1904

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Re: Puzzling marriage record
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 17 August 21 21:08 BST (UK) »
Hmm interesting...........

There does not appear to be a birth record on the GRO for an Elizabeth Mary or Mary Elizabeth Shrives which would cover the date of birth of 16 September 1904.  I had 2 years either side of 1904.

The only birth that comes up is the Bessie Florence Shrives DQ 1904 Paddington.

So could that suggest that Elizabeth was illegitimate and mother married a Shrives after Elizabeth's birth?

Added: Or are we looking at Bessie and Elizabeth being the same person going by jon's findings.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire