Author Topic: Nellie Eileen Ham  (Read 709 times)

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Nellie Eileen Ham
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 09 September 21 09:29 BST (UK) »
I discovered on Harriet's mother's 1911 Census that she had had one living child but was now dead so I am assuming that was Harriet; can't find Harriet's death anywhere... especially after son Amos Mark Alfred Ham died aged 10 weeks...
No further ahead!

The number of children recorded in 1911 should refer to the current relationship, not to children born to previous marriages. So the one child born alive but died by census day should refer to  children Harriet's mother had with Amos Herrington.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Online Annette7

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Re: Nellie Eileen Ham
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 09 September 21 14:07 BST (UK) »
Harriet's mother was Ellen Charter Bleach born 1856 Havant.   By 1911 she is on husband number 3 - Henry John Stiles - who she married in Dec.1908 Wandsworth.   Age given is 47 but she was actually 55 so doubt any children born to that marriage!

Annette
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Offline LizzieL

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Re: Nellie Eileen Ham
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 09 September 21 15:47 BST (UK) »
Thanks Annette, I'd got her baptism and marriage to Amos Herrington, but hadn't found the third marriage. As you say age would prevent her having any children in current relationship as per question in 1911, so it looks as if the one child which had died by 1911, mentioned earlier, must be Harriet after all.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate


Offline LizzieL

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Re: Nellie Eileen Ham
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 09 September 21 15:59 BST (UK) »
Odd that Ellen married Amos in her maiden name even though she was a widow and gave her father as William Wakeford. Baptism says her father was William but surname Bleach, or was that her mother Susan's surname and she was illegitimate?

added
Looks like Wakeford was Susan Bleach's maiden name. Poor Ellen seemed a bit confused!
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline osprey

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Re: Nellie Eileen Ham
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 09 September 21 21:02 BST (UK) »
there's an army record for Alfred Ham. He joined the Royal Engineers in Hammersmith 23 Jan 1891 aged 19 years 11 months and was a carpenter. He had previously served with the City of London Rifle Volunteers. He was transferred to the Army Reserve 23 Feb 1898 and then was recalled 7 Oct 1899. Most of his service was at home apart from 4 months in the Ashanti Expedition in 1895 and just over 2 years in South Africa (Boer War) returning 11 Nov 1901. He received medals for both campaigns.
Next of kin noted as mother Elizabeth of 18 Cambridge Road Hammersmith and older brother Thomas, also in the Royal Engineers. He was discharged medically unfit 1 Feb 1902.

1891 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QF2F-XW2
 
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Kiwi Carol

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Re: Nellie Eileen Ham
« Reply #14 on: Monday 13 September 21 02:28 BST (UK) »
added
Looks like Wakeford was Susan Bleach's maiden name. Poor Ellen seemed a bit confused!

LizzieL
William Bleach married Susan Wakeford (father Joseph and mother Mary Charters) hence Ellen having a middle name Charters, the only child named so. She married 2x, Amos a widower and they were in Loudoun in Scotland when Harriet was 14 - 1891; she was  lace darner.
Ellen born 1856, was with her grandparents Joseph and Mary in 1861 - farmed out because of the number of young children and a baby in the family??? we will never know.
Her first marriage was unfortunate - her husband died in Portsea Prison.
Nellie Eileen never talked about her family history
Carol

Offline Kiwi Carol

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Alfred Joseph Ham Army record
« Reply #15 on: Monday 13 September 21 05:31 BST (UK) »
Thank you all for comments and replies; I was able to read them on the phone but not reply so now on the computer. I really do appreciate the comments and suggestions

Osprey, was very interested in Alfred's army record and initially wondered if that record was really Alfred Joseph; there are several Alfred's/Alfred J with similar birth dates (one being in Hammersmith!) and I was put off a bit by Thomas. He was aged 7 on the 1871 census when Alfred was just 2 months old. That didn't tally with your info.
However, it does explain perhaps why Harriet and Nellie were boarders in the 1901 census.
Now I have some questions for anyone out there who knows about army 'things'
 He Alfred, was transferred to the Army Reserve 23 Feb 1898 and then was recalled 7 Oct 1899
1. Did the army pay the board for wives and children? Why wasn't Harriet accommodated somewhere? They married 1897 and Nellie Eileen was born the following year... boarding with the Campion family in the 1901 Census.
2. Alfred was overseas in the Boer War which does explain his absence and the birth of Amos Mark but where did they go after that? I cannot find either Alfred or Harriet anywhere, no electoral rolls, no deaths especially for Harriet...
3. Why would Alfred be in the Royal Engineers? Was that appropriate for a carpenter?
In searching for explanations, my friend said that her mother (Nellie Eileen) absolutely refused to answer questions and forebade her cousin to research further...
Apart from waiting for the 1921 Census I don't know where to look further...

Carol

Offline Kiwi Carol

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Re: Ellen Charters Bleach - Mason/Herrington/Stiles a PS
« Reply #16 on: Monday 13 September 21 05:42 BST (UK) »
Some of you wonder why Ellen's data is incorrect or seemingly confused.
She signed papers/certificates with a cross. I suspect after her traumatic beginnings and first marriage, it's no wonder she was confused about some of the details.

Carol

Offline Kiwi Carol

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School records for Harriet and Nellie Eileen?
« Reply #17 on: Monday 13 September 21 05:45 BST (UK) »
I'd like to find school records for Harriet after she left Havant aged 5 and between then and being on the Scottish Census in Loudoun in 1891 aged 14...
And where did Nellie Eileen go to school?
I guess one needs to know where they were living!
Carol