Author Topic: Estate Records/Richard Jones b.1810 Llanwyddelan  (Read 1344 times)

Offline tjlowe

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Estate Records/Richard Jones b.1810 Llanwyddelan
« on: Wednesday 01 September 21 18:35 BST (UK) »
Just wondering if anyone knows what would be generally recorded in estate management records, is it just a list of names and rent paid? I've located some records for the Glenhafren estate that seems to cover an ancestor, but they're in East Riding of Yorkshire and they've quoted quite a large amount to copy them (I couldn't really visit there any time soon, I live in Ireland).

I've an ancestor, Richard Jones who was farming in Nantgwylt (spelling varies), Llanllugan on 1851-1881 censuses, which I've been trying to figure out for some time. He's listed as around being born 1810-1811 in Llanwyddelan (his father on his marriage record was also Richard Jones), of which there is a baptism record in 1813 as illegitimate child of Richard Jones and Mary James. There's also though a Richard Jones baptism that same year in Llanllugan to a Richard Jones and Mary Jones also illegimate, but they later married and lived in Llanwyddelan with their children being baptised there too. So if he was brought up by them, he could possibly say he was born in Llanwyddelan.

The stranger things though are there's 2 later baptisms (both illegimate) in Llanwyddelan for Richard Jones and Mary James that both list a location of Trawsgelli around the same time as a Richard Jones and Jane Whiticas were married and were having children baptised at Trawsgelli, they're on the 1841 census there.

Just to confuse matters at Nantgwylt in 1841 there's a Richard Jones who was born in Llanllugan (living elsewhere in 1851 with his birthplace listed) living there who married an Elizabeth Whiticas.


Offline Br1gau

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Re: Estate Records/Richard Jones b.1810 Llanwyddelan
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 01 September 21 21:13 BST (UK) »
Hi tjlowe,

Looking at the Tithe Maps produced around 1845 – 1850 there were several adjacent farm properties in the parish of Llallugan leased by a Richard Jones.  That’s a lot of land to manage for one family so possibly more than one man by that name at the time? or maybe father and son? Checking against the censuses, particularly 1851, may tell you more.


Nant gwyllt -  house and land ~60 acres
Tynewydd  house and land ~ 80 acres
Cwm – house and land ~37 acres

The landowner for all three was the Reverend John Arthur Herbert.  Link here – toggle to the NLS 1888 – 1913 map.  Clicking on the blue pointers will list the various fields and respective acreages

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qw6/

Offline tjlowe

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Re: Estate Records/Richard Jones b.1810 Llanwyddelan
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 01 September 21 21:27 BST (UK) »
Yes, thanks, have already looked at the Tithe maps (I know there are many different Richard Jones' in that area), which was how I got the landowner and hence the land management records, but it was management records I was wondering about, which was Rev. John Arthur Herbert, then passing to his brother Colonel George Edward Herbert of Upper Helmsley Yorkshire.
https://www.eastriding.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=zDDHT%2f11%2f10

Offline DCB

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Re: Estate Records/Richard Jones b.1810 Llanwyddelan
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 02 September 21 09:00 BST (UK) »
I obtained some estate records from the National Library at a very reasonable price, although this was some years ago. Apart from a few documents, it was mainly names and rents.

There are mentions of Glanhafren (Glenhafren?) and Jones, but mainly pre 1800 - http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qw7/

Might be worth a look

David


Offline Br1gau

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Re: Estate Records/Richard Jones b.1810 Llanwyddelan
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 02 September 21 11:41 BST (UK) »
There really are a lot of men by the name of Richard Jones in that area!  Are you specifically interested in Richard Jones and Ellenor Williams who were married 1838 at Llallugan and lived at Nant gwyllt after 1851?

I notice this Richard was a widower at the time of his marriage and came from Penrhosydd, another farm owned by the Rev. Herbert.  Haven’t checked but think it’s in the Llanwyddelan area.  In 1841 a Morgan family lived there. 

I have also had estate records from the NLW, but as DCB says mostly names and rents.


Offline tjlowe

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Re: Estate Records/Richard Jones b.1810 Llanwyddelan
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 02 September 21 11:50 BST (UK) »
Yes thanks, specifially interested in him, just trying to see whether it's even possible to properly identify his parents, but I have doubts.

Yes Richard Jones and Elinor Williams married at Llanllugan in 1838, I saw he was a widower too resident at Penyrhosydd, which seems to be Rev. Herbert too as landowner. I have a best guess at his previous marriage as being Anne Jones in 1836 at Llanllugan with a burial for her in 1837 address being listed as Penrhos, but the age looks a bit amiss at 40.

I was kind of thinking the same with the estate records, for the link above, East Riding Archives quoted me £183 for the 90 pages of it...

Offline Br1gau

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Re: Estate Records/Richard Jones b.1810 Llanwyddelan
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 02 September 21 11:53 BST (UK) »
Ouch  :o