Author Topic: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion  (Read 557 times)

Offline Cloabella12

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #9 on: Friday 03 September 21 23:31 BST (UK) »
possible 1841 for Frederick a shoemaker in Shoreditch. Possible brother Walter.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQVJ-NTZ

The 1847 marriage to Ann Estick is another Fred, a gardener.

Thank you for this, I had seen it but didnít notice the possible Brother Walter.

Many thanks,

Chloe  :)

Offline Cloabella12

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #10 on: Friday 03 September 21 23:40 BST (UK) »

Welcome to Rootschat,
There appears to be a lot of anomalies in the info you supplied

Is this the Henry J Humphreys and Emma F Green marriage 4q 1919 Poplar?
if so, it would make Emma about 47 years old.

Quote
Edwin Walter Lucas Green Born 1862 Bromley Union Motherís Maiden Name Howard

Esther Eliza Lucas Born 1864 Bromley Union Motherís Maiden Name Howard

William Charles Lucas Born 1866 Bromley Union Motherís Maiden Name Howard

Emma Elizabeth Green Born 1872 Bromley Union Motherís Maiden Name Howard

Frederick James Green Born 1874 Bromley Motherís Maiden Name Howard

Arthur Green Born 1877 Bromley Motherís Maiden Name Howard

Jane Ann Lucas Born 1877 Bromley Union Motherís name not listed.

Where does the MMN of Howard fit in?

Does this help?
Edwin Walter Green bap 7 Sep 1862 Bromley Kent Fa: Henry Green Mo: Elizabeth

Edwin Walter Green marr Alice Louisa Skinner 2q 1889 Bromley

Florence Louisa Green dau born 2q 1890 Bromley MMN:Skinner
Amy Elizabeth Green dau born 4q 1895 Bromley MMN:Skinner

Can you give anymore info that would help pin down the people you need help with?

Jim

Hello I have searched and searched for some time and havenít had much luck because not much seems to make sense with this side of my family.

My John Henry Humphreys died in 1912 so that wouldnít be him. I have never been able to find a marriage record for him & Emma Elizabeth Green. And on the 1911 census the marriage length column is blank.


Thatís why I have decided to try and get further with Emmaís side instead. But I still donít quite understand her Mother Elizabethís real last name. Itís either Lucas or Green. And as she named some of her children Green & some Lucas, I am having trouble clarifying this. And I have no idea why she listed Howard as her maiden name on all of the birth records.

Sorry if my post is confusing.

Thanks,

Chloe  :)

Offline heywood

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #11 on: Friday 03 September 21 23:43 BST (UK) »
I donít think this has been posted - puzzle  ???

1861 463/111/29

Fredrick Smith   41 yrs Shoemaker b Shoreditch
Mary Ann Smith   48 yrs b Portsmouth
Elizabeth Smith   25 yrs Shoe binder b Lambeth
Fredrick Smith   15 yrs b Lambeth
Anderlender Elizth Smith 4 yrs b St Lukes

Anderlinder Elizabeth Lucas mmn Rackett

Frederick Lucas in later censuses is a Painter
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Cloabella12

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #12 on: Friday 03 September 21 23:50 BST (UK) »
did Emma Elizabeth marry John Henry Humphreys? Have you checked how many years married on the 1911 census?
Possible death reg ?
Emma Elizabeth Green 74 dec qtr 1946 Bromley vol 8b pg 219

1891 census with detailed place of birth for Elizabeth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJSL-XPZ

1881
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27W-M2HG

1871
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFD6-7DN

Thanks for the Cenus entryís I have seen them. Would you take from them that Elizabeth Green is indeed the daughter of Frederick Lucas? Even if the 1891 cenus states she is his Daughter in law? And if she was born Elizabeth Lucas and married a Green, why would she put Howard as her maiden name on the birth certificates of her children?


Regarding John Henry Humphreys & Emma Elizabeth Green being married. They suggest they are on all the Censusí they are listed on but on the 1911 census the column for length of marriage is left blank. Also I have never been able to find a marriage record for them.

That is possibly the death registration for Emma. But I also found one for an Emma Elizabeth Humphreys for 1960. I am hoping when the 1921 census is released I might gain a little more clarity on this.

Many thanks,

Chloe  :)

Offline heywood

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #13 on: Friday 03 September 21 23:57 BST (UK) »
There is a child born 1856 St Luke but I canít see the name in GRO.
Alonza Rackett Lucas

1851 1564 /361/27
Southwark

Frederick Lucas   31 yrs ladies shoemaker b Shoreditch
Ann Lucas   35 yrs b Portsmouth
Elizabeth Lucas 12 yrs
Emma Lucas 9 yrs
Ellen Lucas 7 yrs
Frederick Lucas   4 yrs
William Augusta Lucas 10 months

*william Austin Lucas b 1851 mmn Rackett

Sorry, Cathy posted a link to this in reply #1
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline osprey

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 04 September 21 00:05 BST (UK) »
ok, 1891 census gives Elizabeth's place of birth as Isabella Street. Possible baptism 18 June 1837 St John the Evangelist Lambeth Elizabeth daughter of Frederick William Howard, frame maker, & Mary Ann of Isabella Street.

Other baptisms to Frederick (William) & Mary Ann Howard at St John the Evangelist, Lambeth
29 Sep 1839 Emma - Frederick joiner Glovers Hatch
21 Nov 1841 David Frederick b. 20 Oct 1841- Frederick carver & gilder Glovers Hatch
26 Nov 1843  Eleanor Esther born 24 Oct - Frederick carver Glovers Hatch
at the workhouse St Mary Lambeth
6 June 1847 Frederick William - Frederick picture frame maker 7 Bond Place, Cornwall Road.
No Howards at 7 Bond Place in 1851.

Birth regs for David Fredrick & Elinor Esther have mother's maiden name of Rackett
And William Austin Lucas 1851 mmn Rackett

Also there is a baptism
Portsea 4 Dec 1808 Mary Ann daughter of John & Elizabeth Rackett

 :-\
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Cloabella12

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 04 September 21 00:11 BST (UK) »
I donít think this has been posted - puzzle  ???

1861 463/111/29

Fredrick Smith   41 yrs Shoemaker b Shoreditch
Mary Ann Smith   48 yrs b Portsmouth
Elizabeth Smith   25 yrs Shoe binder b Lambeth
Fredrick Smith   15 yrs b Lambeth
Anderlender Elizth Smith 4 yrs b St Lukes

Anderlinder Elizabeth Lucas mmn Rackett

Frederick Lucas in later censuses is a Painter

Wow thank you for this! I had not seen this. This is definitely the same family. I have absolutely no idea why their name has been changed to Smith for this census.

The plot thickens!

Thanks,

Chloe  :)

Offline heywood

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 04 September 21 00:19 BST (UK) »
Thanks osprey - good finds

1841 1060 /9/12

Frederick Howard 24 yrs not born in county
Mary Howard 25 yrs not born in county
Elizabeth Howard 4 yrs born in county
Emma Howard 2 yrs born in county
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Offline Cloabella12

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 04 September 21 01:12 BST (UK) »
There is a child born 1856 St Luke but I canít see the name in GRO.
Alonza Rackett Lucas

1851 1564 /361/27
Southwark

Frederick Lucas   31 yrs ladies shoemaker b Shoreditch
Ann Lucas   35 yrs b Portsmouth
Elizabeth Lucas 12 yrs
Emma Lucas 9 yrs
Ellen Lucas 7 yrs
Frederick Lucas   4 yrs
William Augusta Lucas 10 months

*william Austin Lucas b 1851 mmn Rackett

Sorry, Cathy posted a link to this in reply #1

This is really helpful thank you  :)