Author Topic: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion  (Read 549 times)

Offline Cloabella12

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 04 September 21 01:15 BST (UK) »
ok, 1891 census gives Elizabeth's place of birth as Isabella Street. Possible baptism 18 June 1837 St John the Evangelist Lambeth Elizabeth daughter of Frederick William Howard, frame maker, & Mary Ann of Isabella Street.

Other baptisms to Frederick (William) & Mary Ann Howard at St John the Evangelist, Lambeth
29 Sep 1839 Emma - Frederick joiner Glovers Hatch
21 Nov 1841 David Frederick b. 20 Oct 1841- Frederick carver & gilder Glovers Hatch
26 Nov 1843  Eleanor Esther born 24 Oct - Frederick carver Glovers Hatch
at the workhouse St Mary Lambeth
6 June 1847 Frederick William - Frederick picture frame maker 7 Bond Place, Cornwall Road.
No Howards at 7 Bond Place in 1851.

Birth regs for David Fredrick & Elinor Esther have mother's maiden name of Rackett
And William Austin Lucas 1851 mmn Rackett

Also there is a baptism
Portsea 4 Dec 1808 Mary Ann daughter of John & Elizabeth Rackett

 :-\

Thank you so much!! This is all so helpful. I am none the wiser why their surnames have continuously changed but i at least have all of this to work with now.

Thanks,

Chloe  :)

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 04 September 21 16:51 BST (UK) »
Haven't found Frederick William Howard in later records as yet. If he was still alive, Mary Ann wouldn't have been free to marry Frederick Lucas, so you get the mixture of surnames on some entries. Not sure why Smith in 1861.

The child from 1856 was registered as Alonzo Rackett Lucas dec qtr 1856 St Luke vol 1b pg 508 mmn Rackett. Haven't spotted him later either.

Burial St John Lambeth 17 Sept 1843 David Frederick Howard 1

marriage reg Eleanor Hester Howard sep qtr 1864 Bromley vol 2a pg 40

1881 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27W-9SXL

1871 census visiting brother Frederick William
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFD6-DDS

Haven't found Eleanor Hester's or Frederick William's marriage online as yet.

marriage parish church of Croydon 2 Oct 1882
Henry Webb full widower Croydon railway foreman father Alexander Webb labourer
Anderlinda Elizabeth Lucas 28 spinster Croydon father Frederick Lucas painter
witnesses Ebenezer Whittaker & Grace Tudge?

The Webbs move around with railway works
1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:716W-6MM
1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9FD-XMD
1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWZP-JZ7

In 1906 Anderlinda Elizabeth Webb was involved with the administration of the estate of Emma Howard of 4 Evelyn Place North Road Plymouth widow who died 25 Nov 1904. But she wasn't at that address on the 1901 census.

Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Daisypetal

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 04 September 21 18:35 BST (UK) »

Hi,

In 1851 they were living at St George the Martyr, Southwark, I have found these Banns which could be Frederick and Mary Ann,



St George the Martyr, Southwark

1851

P.78
No. 388

Frederick LUCAS    Bachelor
    
Mary SMITH    Spinster

Both of this parish.

11th May
18th May
25th May

This entry is crossed through with "entered on other side,page 77" written on it.


so,



St George the Martyr, Southwark

1851

P.77
No. 384

Frederick LUCAS    Bachelor
    
Mary SMITH    Spinster

Both of this parish.

11th May         by me,  ?? PAULL,  Curate
18th May         by me,  J HORTON,  Rector
25th May         by me,  J HORTON,  Curate



Then,


St George the Martyr, Southwark

1851

P.97
No. 489

Frederick James LUCAS    Bachelor
    
Mary Ann RACKETT    Spinster

Both of this parish.

27th July           by me,  Thos B BAKER,  Curate
3rd August        by me,  J HORTON,  Rector
10th August      by me,  J HORTON,  Rector



These are just Banns, I cannot find any marriage which corresponds to either of them.

It's the same Rector, I  would love to know what they were telling him  :)


Regards,
Daisy
All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)


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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 04 September 21 19:07 BST (UK) »
oh good find! At least they tried!  ;D

He's Frederick J on 1891 census and Frederick James on 1891 death reg. I see on the 1851 banns, there's a note of 'poor'. Wonder if this means they didn't need to pay?
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Daisypetal

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 04 September 21 20:09 BST (UK) »

I can't see where it says poor, maybe we are looking at different images :-\


I think this could be Mary Ann RACKETT, it's only a mile from Isabella Street where Elizabeth was born.

Looks like she was surprising everyone even before her various 'marriages'  :)


London Courier and Evening Gazette 22 December 1835

All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline Cloabella12

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 05 September 21 22:31 BST (UK) »
Haven't found Frederick William Howard in later records as yet. If he was still alive, Mary Ann wouldn't have been free to marry Frederick Lucas, so you get the mixture of surnames on some entries. Not sure why Smith in 1861.

The child from 1856 was registered as Alonzo Rackett Lucas dec qtr 1856 St Luke vol 1b pg 508 mmn Rackett. Haven't spotted him later either.

Burial St John Lambeth 17 Sept 1843 David Frederick Howard 1

marriage reg Eleanor Hester Howard sep qtr 1864 Bromley vol 2a pg 40

1881 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27W-9SXL

1871 census visiting brother Frederick William
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFD6-DDS

Haven't found Eleanor Hester's or Frederick William's marriage online as yet.

marriage parish church of Croydon 2 Oct 1882
Henry Webb full widower Croydon railway foreman father Alexander Webb labourer
Anderlinda Elizabeth Lucas 28 spinster Croydon father Frederick Lucas painter
witnesses Ebenezer Whittaker & Grace Tudge?

The Webbs move around with railway works
1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:716W-6MM
1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9FD-XMD
1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWZP-JZ7

In 1906 Anderlinda Elizabeth Webb was involved with the administration of the estate of Emma Howard of 4 Evelyn Place North Road Plymouth widow who died 25 Nov 1904. But she wasn't at that address on the 1901 census.

Ahh this is really helpful and gives me a lot to work with thank you so much  :)

Offline Cloabella12

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 05 September 21 22:33 BST (UK) »

Hi,

In 1851 they were living at St George the Martyr, Southwark, I have found these Banns which could be Frederick and Mary Ann,



St George the Martyr, Southwark

1851

P.78
No. 388

Frederick LUCAS    Bachelor
    
Mary SMITH    Spinster

Both of this parish.

11th May
18th May
25th May

This entry is crossed through with "entered on other side,page 77" written on it.


so,



St George the Martyr, Southwark

1851

P.77
No. 384

Frederick LUCAS    Bachelor
    
Mary SMITH    Spinster

Both of this parish.

11th May         by me,  ?? PAULL,  Curate
18th May         by me,  J HORTON,  Rector
25th May         by me,  J HORTON,  Curate



Then,


St George the Martyr, Southwark

1851

P.97
No. 489

Frederick James LUCAS    Bachelor
    
Mary Ann RACKETT    Spinster

Both of this parish.

27th July           by me,  Thos B BAKER,  Curate
3rd August        by me,  J HORTON,  Rector
10th August      by me,  J HORTON,  Rector



These are just Banns, I cannot find any marriage which corresponds to either of them.

It's the same Rector, I  would love to know what they were telling him  :)


Regards,
Daisy

Oh thank you this is great! Iím trying to get my head around this. No wonder I couldnít find anyone with the changing names. Yes I would love to know what they were telling him!  ;D

Offline Cloabella12

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Re: Emma Elizabeth Green surname confusion
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 05 September 21 22:36 BST (UK) »

I can't see where it says poor, maybe we are looking at different images :-\


I think this could be Mary Ann RACKETT, it's only a mile from Isabella Street where Elizabeth was born.

Looks like she was surprising everyone even before her various 'marriages'  :)


London Courier and Evening Gazette 22 December 1835

Wow this is fantastic!! She sounds like quite the character!

Thanks so much,

Chloe  :)