Author Topic: Probate statement on a 1717 Bond in Latin  (Read 154 times)

Offline Llanfihangel

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
  • Rootschat and the Library of Wales..... Superb!
    • View Profile
Probate statement on a 1717 Bond in Latin
« on: Friday 03 September 21 00:33 BST (UK) »
Hi,

A bond on the estate of Henry Williams of Merthyr Cynog, Breconshire has one of the bounders identified as Elinor Williams.

There is a probate statement, please see attached, that I would like to decipher. I think it states that Elinor Williams was the wife of Henry Williams and is now called Elinor Pries (Price)

I'm not sure and I would be very grateful for your comments!

Thanks,

Llanfi :) :) :) :) :)
Pugh, Powell, Williams, Maddox, Prosser

Offline horselydown86

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,103
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Probate statement on a 1717 Bond in Latin
« Reply #1 on: Friday 03 September 21 05:05 BST (UK) »
Elinor was certainly the relict of the deceased - eius relictae

I think the other word is the Latin prius and doesn't refer to a change of her name.

However I can't fully follow the meaning so please wait until Bookbox has taken a look.


Offline Watson

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Probate statement on a 1717 Bond in Latin
« Reply #2 on: Friday 03 September 21 10:55 BST (UK) »
Let's give Bookbox a break ...

"Fiat administratio bonorum &c. supranominati p--? defuncti Elinorae Williams eius relictae dicta Elinora prius de bene et fideliter administrando &c. in debita Iuris forma jurata.
                                                        Coram me"

Let there be administration of the goods, etc., of the above named deceased in favour of Elinora Williams, his relict, the said Elinora having first been sworn in the required legal manner to administer correctly and faithfully.
                                                          Before me         

I'm not sure about the word before "defuncti".


Online arthurk

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,927
    • View Profile
Re: Probate statement on a 1717 Bond in Latin
« Reply #3 on: Friday 03 September 21 14:22 BST (UK) »
I'm not sure about the word before "defuncti".

pr[ae]d[icti] perhaps (= aforesaid)
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Watson

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Probate statement on a 1717 Bond in Latin
« Reply #4 on: Friday 03 September 21 14:32 BST (UK) »
Thank you, Arthur.  It occurred to me, too, that it might be "praedicti".  However, if the previous word is "supranominati", it sounds a bit like tautology, so I decided to put a question mark instead.  Perhaps it is "supranominatorum", i.e. above named goods, then "praedicti".

Offline Watson

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Probate statement on a 1717 Bond in Latin
« Reply #5 on: Friday 03 September 21 15:46 BST (UK) »
Yes, I think "supranominatorum praedicti". Below I have amended my transcript and translation accordingly:

"Fiat administratio bonorum &c. supranominatorum praedicti defuncti Elinorae Williams eius relictae dicta Elinora prius de bene et fideliter administrando &c. in debita Iuris forma jurata.
                                                        Coram me"

Let there be administration of the above named goods, etc., of the aforesaid deceased in favour of Elinora Williams, his relict, the said Elinora having first been sworn in the required legal manner to administer correctly and faithfully.
                                                          Before me         

Offline Llanfihangel

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
  • Rootschat and the Library of Wales..... Superb!
    • View Profile
Re: Probate statement on a 1717 Bond in Latin
« Reply #6 on: Friday 03 September 21 21:04 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone!
Thank you all and especially horselydown86 and Watson!

I needed the information because I am researching the Williams family of Bailey Brith, a mansion in Breconshire, and have traced them back to 1585. The dilemma arose in relation to the more modern residents identified in Henry Williams Will of 1672 and this Bond regarding the property of (another?)  Henry Williams in 1717.
The problem arose because the 1672 Will left everything to an infant child Thomas Williams, and has his wife Elizabeth daughter of Thomas Vaughan.
The bounder of the 1717 document was Elinor Williams, and the probate record was illegible. With your help, it turns out that Elinor was the wife of Henry Williams of Bailey Brith in 1717.
What happened in between 1672 and 1717 (45 years) will remain a mystery, but I speculate that Thomas had a child he called Henry around 1682 and he married Elinor.
Many Thanks!!

 :) :) :) :) Llanfi

Pugh, Powell, Williams, Maddox, Prosser