Author Topic: 1939 register redacted entry is blank  (Read 731 times)

Offline Zaphod99

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1939 register redacted entry is blank
« on: Saturday 04 September 21 10:17 BST (UK) »
I recently heard from a cousin who was trying to find out about her late mother's life in care in the 1940s. My cousin provided her mother's death certificate to findmypast, in order to have a redacted record revealed. Findmypast informed her that the redacted line was actually blank. I wondered if anyone had any comments on this, as it seems odd for there to be a blank line in the middle of a 1939 register page.

Subsequently my cousin found her mother living elsewhere with a carer.

Zaph

Online rosie99

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Re: 1939 register redacted entry is blank
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 04 September 21 11:16 BST (UK) »
As it would be FindMyPast redacting the entry then perhaps that question needs directing at them.
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Offline chris_49

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Re: 1939 register redacted entry is blank
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 04 September 21 12:36 BST (UK) »
I seem to remember coming across a redaction on the 1939 register that could only have been a blank line. Sorry I can't remember any details or even how I worked that out.
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs <br />Hancox - Warks<br />Green - Warks<br />Draper - Warks<br />Lynes - Warks<br />Hudson - Warks<br />Morris - Denbs Mont Salop <br />Davies - Cheshire, North Wales<br />Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire<br />Owens - Cheshire/North Wales<br />Hicks - Cornwall<br />Lloyd and Jones (Mont)<br />Rhys/Rees (Mont)


Offline Zaphod99

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Re: 1939 register redacted entry is blank
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 04 September 21 20:02 BST (UK) »
No progress so far then.  I think FindMyPast would laugh at me if I asked why a blank line was redacted!

It is is too recent for me to give specifics, but the couple in question had a baby a year earlier, and got married a year later. As the child appears elsewhere on the 1939 register I know the child was taken into care. I'm a bit naive on these things, but under what other situation would a child be taken into care, unless either parent was considered incapable of or unfit for looking after the child? I can't see that the blank redaction and the child going into care are are necessarily connected, or even possibly connected.

Zaph

Offline majm

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Re: 1939 register redacted entry is blank
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 04 September 21 22:39 BST (UK) »

........

I know the child was taken into care. I'm a bit naive on these things, but under what other situation would a child be taken into care, unless either parent was considered incapable of or unfit for looking after the child? I can't see that the blank redaction and the child going into care are are necessarily connected, or even possibly connected.

Zaph

A baby may have been surrendered  by a parent and that can be because that parent had been pressured to do so, by hospital staff or by their own family.

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Offline JohninSussex

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Re: 1939 register redacted entry is blank
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 05 September 21 00:12 BST (UK) »
Is it possible that the columns opposite, that we never see, contained information on the blank line?  For example a note that there is another family member resident elsewhere? 
Rutter, Sampson, Swinerd, Head, Redman in Kent.  Others in Cheshire, Manchester, Glos/War/Worcs.
RUTTER family and Matilda Sampson's Will:

Offline Jon_ni

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Re: 1939 register redacted entry is blank
« Reply #6 on: Monday 06 September 21 23:02 BST (UK) »
also remember that what we see isn't what the transcribers saw. They could not see Rows, for the protection of living people they got half or a third of a vertical page eg dates and another got the names so the person with the date side would have no idea the left part was also blank so may have tagged it triggering redaction. I don't know but, that may have been their instructions if you can't read the DOB, or there is no info there, redact it.

"However the biggest challenge for the transcribers was the result of privacy concerns - these records were not due to be opened until 2040, by which time everyone recorded would have been over 100 years old. This is why we could initially only see records for people who were born over 100 years ago, or whose death had been recorded in the register.
 
This meant that the transcribers weren't given an entire page to work with - instead the page was divided into columns of data. No one transcriber would have an entire entry for an individual, making it much more difficult to interpret what they could see."
https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/inside1939.htm#Errors

Offline cjc1867

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Re: 1939 register redacted entry is blank
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 09 October 21 01:03 BST (UK) »
Hi
Just tonight Friday 8th October 2021, I search for a person in 1939 Register on Ancestry and found one that could have matched so I sent it to him to confirm it or not.

He said yes that's my grandparents and my dad but his dad's sister was missing. He then said, my father died in 2007 and his sister died in 2003 so really her details should have been revealed.

I checked the same details on Find My Past and on their 1939 Register page for this family had his sister's details shown.

For some reason Ancestry didn't and Find My Past did so different results.

Colin

Offline Jon_ni

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Re: 1939 register redacted entry is blank
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 09 October 21 01:44 BST (UK) »
Colin
Findmypast update several times a year and can submit proof to them to reveal if have a subscription. Ancestry do once a year and proof has to be sent to National Archives who make a charge of 24.35.

Is not unusual to find Findmypasts more up to date & different than Ancestry's.
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/1939register/1939-register-getting-started
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/PaidSearch/FOI1939Register
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/61596/

Both Findmypast and Ancestry publicise when they update the Register but they don't work together. Findmypast did the original scanning and imaging and sent them to TNA. TNA released images to Ancestry who did their own transcriptions of them.
eg for the 1921 census under FAQ Findmypast say "Any transcription created by the service provider will be their IP but the census and the archival-quality images remain the property of The National Archives, who through this project now own a digital surrogate of this important national resource. The cost of creating digital images from the paper originals, transcribing those records to create the necessary information to make them useful, and building and hosting the infrastructure to present the images and data to the general public is beyond the resources of The National Archives." https://www.findmypast.co.uk/1921-census

"The 1939 Register is available on subscription genealogy websites Ancestry, Findmypast, TheGenealogist and MyHeritage. Both TheGenealogist and MyHeritage only offer the transcription at present, with no images. The transcription they use is the same as the one used by Findmypast. Ancestry uses its own transcription along with images."
https://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/tutorials/10-things-you-should-know-about-the-1939-register/

It is obviously easier for computer systems to match male deaths with respective DOB's than females who change names and bear in mind the differences in recent death indexes we can see which go from age to at death to DOB to 2007 and back to age only for the very recent that we can only see on the GRO website (hence Ancestry & Findmypast give us Greypower info which is only 55%). If someone emigrated or even moved to Scotland or Northern Ireland no computer match will be found and either someone has to submit info or wait till 100 years after the DOB transcribed & record then opens.