Author Topic: Missing GRO record for Henry Harris?!  (Read 527 times)

Offline tazzie

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Re: Missing GRO record for Henry Harris?!
« Reply #9 on: Monday 06 September 21 16:17 BST (UK) »
Is he The Henry that marries Mary Pennikett in 1890?
That maiden name matches the children's birth. On his marriage cert he gives his father as Henry James Harris. In 1891 he also gives Old Kent Road as place of birth.


 Tazzie
Liscoe -all
Green/Simpson/Underwood-Beds
Walker/Foulkes/Fookes/Fooks/Hedges/Lamborne-Bucks.
Stanton/Pattrick/Cooper/Fitzjohn/Holland/Spalding-London
 Rewallin/Underwood -Devon
 Casbolt-London/Cambridge
 Favell/Favel - Lincs-Beds

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   www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Comberton

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Re: Missing GRO record for Henry Harris?!
« Reply #10 on: Monday 06 September 21 16:18 BST (UK) »
If I have the correct marriage for Henry James Harris based on the 1911 census
HJH married Mary Pennikett in 1890, his father also HJH a labourer. Witnesses Charles & Susan Sarah Doswell. This couple in 1891 have children mmn Harris.
Birth
Susan Sarah Harris
1861 Bermondsey
mmn Akers
also
Henry James Harris
Dec 1866 St George Southwark
mmn Akers
Doswell/ Harris marriage has her father as Henry George Harris, a clerk
1871 census
Henry G is a grocer / cheesemonger b 1836 Surrey
all children mmn Akers includes Susan and Henry
601/39/22

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Offline Jebber

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Re: Missing GRO record for Henry Harris?!
« Reply #11 on: Monday 06 September 21 16:29 BST (UK) »
Familysearch has it as 1d 255 ::)

Mike

I have just checked the Family Search entry, it's a transcription not an image. If you look again 255 is the  Affiliate Line Number 255, not the page which is correctly shown as 396.
CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester,† Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.


Offline AntonyMMM

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Re: Missing GRO record for Henry Harris?!
« Reply #12 on: Monday 06 September 21 16:45 BST (UK) »
If you look at the the number of entries on the same page as Henry J HARRIS (1d p396) in Lambeth there are eleven, which suggests one is indexed twice.

One of the entries on that page is a Henry J ELDRIDGE- he does appear in the GRO index as Henry John (not James), and with no mother's maiden name shown.

The GRO index doesn't use the same rules as were used when the printed indexed were compiled, so it normal to see differences , and that doesn't necessarily mean it is an error.



Offline thegoat

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Re: Missing GRO record for Henry Harris?!
« Reply #13 on: Monday 06 September 21 17:11 BST (UK) »
Thanks all!!

Quite a bit to unpick there!

Comberton - new leads for me to follow, thanks. Fathers name of Henry George is different to what our Henry James has recorded on his marriage to Mary Penniket (also a Henry James) so either this is a related but different Henry Harris, or there was an error on the marriage cert.
There are several possible Henry Harris in the 1861,71,81 censuses in the right general area of London, hence thought the birth certificate would be the best way to be surest of the right family to follow.

AntonyMMM - Iíve not quite understood the full implications of your post I think! Do you essentially mean that there isnít actually a birth record for a Henry J Harris in that quarter (because of some kind of double entry issue)? In which case I guess itís not worth pursuing any further with the GRO. Or does the double entry issue mean that there IS a birth record/certificate for Ďmyí Henry James Harris in that quarter but that the reference for the GRO should be different?!

Thanks again all
Thurston (London, Essex)
Underwood (West Ham)
Stobie (West Ham)
Barnett (London)
Seares (London)
Harris (London)
Norris (London)
Moneypenny ??
John, Lewis, Mellin, Rees, Jones (Glamorganshire)
Williams, Owen, Gibby, Davies, Adams, Warlow (Pembrokeshire)

Offline Dundee

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Re: Missing GRO record for Henry Harris?!
« Reply #14 on: Monday 06 September 21 18:18 BST (UK) »
An example of what a twice indexed birth registration might record is:

Henry John, Father XXX ELDRIDGE, Mother XXX HARRIS

The 'old' indexes would show this twice, indexed under each surname as the mother has a different surname to the father.

The newer GRO index will only show it indexed under the surname of the father with no mother's maiden surname because they have no knowledge of whether or not the name HARRIS is her maiden surname.

If they were a married couple, or claiming to be, her name should be recorded as XXX ELDRIDGE formerly HARRIS.

Debra  :)

Offline Dundee

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Re: Missing GRO record for Henry Harris?!
« Reply #15 on: Monday 06 September 21 18:43 BST (UK) »
Henry G is a grocer / cheesemonger b 1836 Surrey
all children mmn Akers includes Susan and Henry
601/39/22

Henry G. was quite versatile.  In 1881 he is a Chaff Cutter and in 1891 a Carman.

Debra  :)

Offline Dundee

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Re: Missing GRO record for Henry Harris?!
« Reply #16 on: Monday 06 September 21 19:09 BST (UK) »
Charles and Susan DOSWELL also witnessed the marriage of brother Edmund HARRIS in 1884.  He thought his father was a Horse Keeper.

Debra  :)

Offline thegoat

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Re: Missing GRO record for Henry Harris?!
« Reply #17 on: Monday 06 September 21 19:32 BST (UK) »
An example of what a twice indexed birth registration might record is:

Henry John, Father XXX ELDRIDGE, Mother XXX HARRIS

The 'old' indexes would show this twice, indexed under each surname as the mother has a different surname to the father.

The newer GRO index will only show it indexed under the surname of the father with no mother's maiden surname because they have no knowledge of whether or not the name HARRIS is her maiden surname.

If they were a married couple, or claiming to be, her name should be recorded as XXX ELDRIDGE formerly HARRIS.

Debra  :)

Thank you Debra, makes perfect sense  :) :)
Thurston (London, Essex)
Underwood (West Ham)
Stobie (West Ham)
Barnett (London)
Seares (London)
Harris (London)
Norris (London)
Moneypenny ??
John, Lewis, Mellin, Rees, Jones (Glamorganshire)
Williams, Owen, Gibby, Davies, Adams, Warlow (Pembrokeshire)