Author Topic: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)  (Read 339 times)

Offline macken_h

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Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« on: Tuesday 07 September 21 02:45 BST (UK) »
Hi,
I have confusing information as to the true origins of Ronald Frederick Gibson.
His birth certificate (which I will attach) has his name as Ronald Frederick Smith. However, when he marries in 1950 he is Ronald Frederick Gibson. (certificate attached)
I have his father as William Gordan Gibson (DOB unknown) who married Elsie Alice Morris September 24th 1913 in NSW. Again, to add to the confusion I have a son born to William G as Stanley A Smith born abt 1914 in Port Macquarie. There seem to be other children but I can't find them.
Ronald Frederick married twice, firstly to Gweneth Allison Marx in 1950 and then to Marjorie Hazel Hateley (Thomson) abt 1973.
There is a rumour that William Gordon was already married and had a family in England although I cannot find anything to prove that theory.
Any suggestions and help would be greatly appreciated.
Hilary





Balfour, Painting. Belin, de Belin. Mackenzie/McKenzie

Offline majm

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 04:42 BST (UK) »
The 1918 Vic birth registration says the parents of that baby were married in Lismore, NSW in 1913.

Have you looked for that NSW marriage document?  I ask that because it will have information provided by the bride and by the groom about themselves, AND about their parents including nee names for their mothers. 

The NSW BDM online index has that marriage as Elsie A MORRIS and Albert SMITH and it is reference 11049/1913 and registered in the Lismore BDM district.  The online index includes the option to determine the exact date of the event.  It drills down to 24 September 1913.    It may well be that the surname GIBSON or GORDAN is noted on that 1913 document.

In the 1950s and back earlier, and actually still to this day,  any person can become known by another name, provided that it is not to deceive or defraud. 

I will look further, later today or tomorrow.

JM





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Online judb

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 04:45 BST (UK) »
I must have missed something here  :( so please forgive me!

You have a birth certificate for a Ronald Frederick SMITH, DoB 25 March, 1919 at the Women's Hospital in Melbourne with parents Albert SMITH, miner, 30, b Manchester and Elsie Smith, nee NORRIS (could be Morris) , 25 b Kempsey NSW.  Marriage of parents Lismore, 1913 (!917?).  Siblings: Stanley 3, Leonard deceased, Marjorie Victoria 1

I see on the marriage certificate, using surname GIBSON (1950) that he lists his father as Alfred SMITH.

I think you may have the wrong burial information.  There is an on-line tree which suggests that Ronald Frederick GIBSON died in 2012  The Australia and New Zealand, Obituary Index, 2004-Current shows  this: Ronald Frederick Gibson,
Burial Date:   7 Dec 2012, Obituary Date:   4 Dec 2012

Electoral Roll 1977 shows Ronald Frederick GIBSON, farmer and Marjorie Hazel GIBSON, factory hand living in Tongala, Victoria.

Cheers, Judith

DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

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Offline maddys52

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 04:54 BST (UK) »
You both typed quicker than me.  ;)

Just what I was going to say, so have deleted my response!

Except that Stanley A SMITH born 1914 Port Macquarie (19867/1914 ) also has parents Albert  and Elsie.

Online judb

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 05:07 BST (UK) »
Other siblings mentioned on Ronald's birth certificate - Leonard and Marjory were twins apparently
B043817 (B=Brisbane) - Both children have the same number
Leonard Victor Smith
Marjory Victoria Smith
Birth Date:   5 Apr 1916
Father:   Albert Smith
Mother:   Elsie alice Morris

Death for Leonard;
B 025072 Leonard Victor Smith
Death Date:   26 Mar 1917
Father's Name:   Albert Smith
Mother's Name:   Elsie Alice Morris

Judith


DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cando

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 05:11 BST (UK) »
I note the marriage cert stated father Alfred SMITH is deceased at the time of the marriage.  According to the birth index his father seems to be Albert and mother appears to be Elsie A NORRIS not Elsie May.

Ronald Frederick GIBSON's WW2 service record states his father is Mr W G GIBSON of 32 Evans Street, Moonee Ponds. 
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/NAAMedia/ShowImage.aspx?B=6220739&S=1&T=P&R=0

Electoral Roll shows his father to be William Gordon GIBSON.  I can find no Elsie GIBSON at the same address.
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Offline majm

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 05:12 BST (UK) »
NSW BDM has birth indexed for Stanley A SMITH, parents as Albert and Elsie A,  registered Port Macquarie district, and the dob drills down to 5 May 1914  (Ref 19867/1914)

Sorry Maddy,  I have over 60 years as a typiste.  I cannot do one finger typing though,  my right hand pointer has no dictionary features, its too crooked.

 :)

JM





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Offline cando

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 05:16 BST (UK) »
Possibly his mother's birth
18303/1892
MORRIS Elsie A
Father Arthur E and Mother Mary E
District Kempsey.
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Offline majm

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 05:18 BST (UK) »
Stanley Albert SMITH born 5 May 1914 at Wauchope NSW (a town in the Port Macquarie BDM registration district at that time) served WWII,  NX9979, as per DVA nominal roll.
https://nominal-rolls.dva.gov.au/ 

Agh,  yes, red post,  I agree with Cando, that Kempsey birth makes good sense.   :)


JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.