Author Topic: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)  (Read 321 times)

Offline judb

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 07:58 BST (UK) »
OOPs - correction in Red

Well, here's a connection to William Gordon GIBSON - not sure what it means just yet!

Ronald Frederick GIBSON's marriage certificate in 1950has his address as 32 Evans St Moonee Ponds.

William Gordon GIBSON is shown at that address on the electoral roll for 1936,1937 (no-one else of that surname at that address), 1942 with Elna Irene P Evans GIBSON

Speculation - as Ronald was only 2 when his mother died and, as she had apparently remarried, his father must have died also.  Perhaps he was cared for by someone from the Gibson family?

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline macken_h

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 08:53 BST (UK) »
Well, here's a connection to William Gordon GIBSON - not sure what it means just yet!

Ronald Frederick GIBSON's marriage certificate in 1950has his address as 32 Evans St Moonee Ponds.

William Gordon GIBSON is shown at that address on the electoral roll for 1936,1937 (no-one else of that surname at that address), 1942 with Elna Irene P Evans

Speculation - as Ronald was only 2 when his mother died and, as she had apparently remarried, his father must have died also.  Perhaps he was cared for by someone from the Gibson family?

Judith
I don't have details as to when Ronald's mother died. Do you have those details? I assumed that Elna Irene was Elsie Alice. Is this a wrong assumption?
Balfour, Painting. Belin, de Belin. Mackenzie/McKenzie

Offline judb

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 09:03 BST (UK) »
In Reply #12 Cando gave the following marriage and death details for Elsie
1920 Marriage - SMITH Elsie Alice, WALKER John Arthur

Correction:
1920 1928 Death - WALKER Elsie Alice aged 35 at Carlton
Parents:  Arthur MORRIS, Elizabeth UNKNOWN

Elna Irene is not Elsie
Sorry - just noticed that I've given the street name as her surname in 1942
1942  Elna Irene P GIBSON

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline macken_h

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 09:21 BST (UK) »
Balfour, Painting. Belin, de Belin. Mackenzie/McKenzie

Offline Jennaya

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 09:42 BST (UK) »
For anyone not familiar with the area; Gundurimba is very close to Lismore. So it looks very likely that this is your Elsie Alice.

Offline sparrett

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 09:56 BST (UK) »
Hi,
Just wondering if this is my Elsie Alice
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/238963255?searchTerm=%22elsie%20Alice%20Smith%22

If this is supposed to be the father of your Ronald per the marriage certificate, then one would expect the birth of Ronald Frederick to be closer to the 1913.
Albert and Elsie were married only in 1913

Was the statement on the marriage certificate, that Albert was his father, a cover up for his ex-nuptial birth?   

Sue
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Offline judb

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 11:41 BST (UK) »
Elsie Alice and Albert SMITH are named as the parents of four children - Stanley b 1914 and registered Port Macquarie, Leonard and Marjory b Brisbane 1916 and Ronald Frederick b 1918 Melbourne.

I suppose it's possible that Albert had died in 1913 and Elsie had the later children as a single mother, using Albert's name as the father - remembering that no formal ID was needed to register births so you could say what you liked as to the father.  I note that Ronald's birth registration informant was a hospital official.

We're still not seeing a connection between the two surnames SMITH and GIBSON.

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline macken_h

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 12:26 BST (UK) »
Hi judb,
Somone (actually a g grandaughter) has put up a tree on Ancestry where they have the father of Ronald Frederick Gibson as Albert Smith born 1897 in Manchester, England. Their source is the 1901 Census where he is listed as the son residing in Cheshire.
I'll put up the link which hopefully works.
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=7814&h=20009161&ssrc=pt&tid=22865490&pid=18000326598&usePUB=true

There is no other information.
I have tried to get in contact with this person but to date have had no reply.
Interestingly, Ronald Frederick Gibson's second wife is still alive and living in Kew, Victoria I believe. Hopefully I can get in touch with her and maybe get some answers.
Balfour, Painting. Belin, de Belin. Mackenzie/McKenzie

Offline judb

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Re: Gibson/Smith - William Gordan (which surname is correct?)
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 07 September 21 14:15 BST (UK) »
Correction:
Elsie Alice WALKER's death is 1928, not 1920 as previously stated

Now to the information from the on-line tree you've mentioned:
At Ronald's birth his father is given as Albert Smith, miner, aged 30, b Manchester (presumably UK).  If this is correct (and it may not be) Albert was born 1887. IF (see below) Elsie had given a deceased husband as the father of Ronald then it's not surprising that the other details are incorrect.

The Albert Smith shown on the census from the tree as you've given was born 1885 at Kinnerton, Cheshire which is over 40 miles (about 70k) from Manchester.

However- that tree shows this death:
NSW 1913 #19278 Registered at Lismore
Albert Smith
Father's Name:   William
Mother's Name:   Mary E
The tree says that he died in a logging accident, and gives the actual date of death as 6 September.

There's the corresponding marriage 1913 for Albert SMITH and Elsie MORRIS  at Lismore, plus the TROVE article you found re probate for Albert SMITH of Gundurimba (near Lismore)

Is this further evidence that Elsie was registering the later children citing her deceased husband as the father?   ??? ???

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk