Author Topic: Help with finding a passenger list record  (Read 578 times)

Offline IrishAussie16

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Re: Help with finding a passenger list record
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 14 September 21 12:32 BST (UK) »
Yes I have definitely seen it. So far it is the only birth record with the closest name that I've seen. But as far as I know he doesn't have middle name. There wouldn't be any reason for the father, John McKnight, not to be listed on the birth record as they were married at that time. I think other people with William on their family trees on ancestry have used this as his birth date, but I'm still not sure. How can you tell its a workhouse? Just curious.
That looks like his brother's record, thank you very much.
I have a feeling that William's parents didn't register his birth at all since it was before the official records. I'm hoping I will find a church baptism record. His parents married in december 1861. How likely is it at that time that he would have been born before they got married? maybe he could have been born around September 1862...just a theory I was thinking about.
Yourell, McComiskey, Collins, Dawson, Ashton, McKnight, Bilsborough, Riethmuller

Offline Katharine75

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Re: Help with finding a passenger list record
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 15 September 21 01:53 BST (UK) »
Underneath the given birthdate it gives address as Workhouse Newry. The child below has the same.

Even though the father is not listed for that birth, given it was in the workhouse I would not assume that it was a single mother. Maybe looking at the workhouse records (if available) might give a bit more detail on this Jane McKnight helping you clarify if it could/couldn't be him. Maybe the workhouse didn't take care to record father's names on births or she was unwell at time and was unable to communicate that information at the time of registration. Just ideas.

Yes, definitely possible he might be born before they married. But would he have been one of the eldest children? If you find the births of other children maybe you can confirm a gap in dates where his birth should fit. Another possibility is he was actually born elsewhere.

I think on his brother's birth the father was listed as schoolmaster. If that was the case maybe you can track that down. Perhaps father was working at a school further away from Newry when William was born.

Offline IrishAussie16

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Re: Help with finding a passenger list record
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 15 September 21 17:31 BST (UK) »
Would there have only been one work house in Newry? I don't really know anything about work houses, what kind of work did they actually do in them? Would there be some kind of register for people who worked in them?

Yes, so John was a school master only when they got married in1861 and at some point also a farmer, but I think after William was born.
But Sarah Jane was also a school mistress. So would she have been at a work house? I'm not sure, but could she have been teaching anyone at the workhouse?
I hadn't thought of finding where John and Sarah worked at that time. Where would I even find that kind of information?
William is the oldest child I believe, I won't say he definitely is, as it could be possible there are other siblings I don't know about. I will have to have another look to see what the next birth year is, I have a feeling it is after official registration started. All of the other siblings I have, I am not sure I have their baptism records yet. I need to go back and check that.
Yourell, McComiskey, Collins, Dawson, Ashton, McKnight, Bilsborough, Riethmuller


Offline Kiltaglassan

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Re: Help with finding a passenger list record
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 15 September 21 19:47 BST (UK) »
Would there have only been one work house in Newry? I don't really know anything about work houses, what kind of work did they actually do in them? Would there be some kind of register for people who worked in them?

Here's some information about the workhouse in Newry.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Newry/

Scroll to the bottom.
Records are held by PRONI in Belfast.
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/campaigns/public-record-office-northern-ireland-proni

KG


Researching: Cuthbertson Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter Co. Derry; Jackson Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott Co. Derry; Neilly Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy Co. Antrim; Nixon Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble Co. Sligo

Offline IrishAussie16

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Re: Help with finding a passenger list record
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 16 September 21 05:20 BST (UK) »
Thank you for the information KG. So now I have a better understanding of what the workhouse was. I went to the links you posted, but apart from listing all the workhouses I wasn't sure where to find the super intendants registrar information.
I tried to search proni for school records using the reference sch and it says it covers from 1841 or there abouts, so that would cover when John and Sarah McKnight worked. But all it came through on that search was that there is an index somewhere of all the schools. If searching for sch doesn't bring them up then what does?

Ok, now referring back to William's siblings (John and Sarah's other children) I have births for 1865, 1869, 1871, 1874 and 1876. Plus William's unknown birth date. 3 girls and then 2 boys. If these are the only children they had, they do seem to have had them spread out a bit, compared with other families around the same time. I'm still a little perplexed with William's birth date. If he was the workhouse born baby in 1866, then that would make him the second child.
I have the location for the second last child born in Mount Norris, which is not that far from Drumnahunshin and Caragollogoly (sorry about the spelling).
Yourell, McComiskey, Collins, Dawson, Ashton, McKnight, Bilsborough, Riethmuller

Offline Katharine75

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Re: Help with finding a passenger list record
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 16 September 21 06:18 BST (UK) »
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

Not sure if you have been on there before, but here is the civil registration website with BDM freely available. Have a look around as you might find something further.

Are the baptism records available somewhere for the family? I think you said they weren't Catholic. If you can access them maybe also check for him under Ford/Forde too.

Looking at the dates you gave, if they married in 1861 I you might expect to see a child probably 2 children before the 1865 birth. Could there be another missing between 71 and 74? Of course there could have been pregnancies but not full term to account for gaps.

With the workhouse: I have ancestors from Co.Tipperary. Couldn't find a birth in 1880s for the brother. His marriage in Australia said he was born in Liverpool. When I searched the records there I found his birth registered in the workhouse. From memory it only gave mother. Even though they were still married and at some point went back to Tipperary.
I have a very scant knowledge of Liverpool history, but presume they might have been there for a short period for work purposes. For some reason she must have needed to go to the infirmary in the workhouse for the birth. So as far as I could tell they were not living in the workhouse. My understanding (and I am sure someone will correct me if wrong) is that the infirmary was for anyone who might need medical care even if they were not an inmate.


Offline IrishAussie16

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Re: Help with finding a passenger list record
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 16 September 21 07:01 BST (UK) »
Was the term 'super intendant register' only used in a work house or for all births? I was just looking back at Williams younger brothers birth record and it says that on the record. 
Yourell, McComiskey, Collins, Dawson, Ashton, McKnight, Bilsborough, Riethmuller

Offline Kiltaglassan

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Re: Help with finding a passenger list record
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 16 September 21 08:32 BST (UK) »
Yes, so John was a school master only when they got married in1861 and at some point also a farmer, but I think after William was born.
But Sarah Jane was also a school mistress.

Marriage record-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1861/09616/5487379.pdf

Was the term 'super intendant register' only used in a work house or for all births? I was just looking back at Williams younger brothers birth record and it says that on the record. 

Are we talking about the title on the top of the birth record - Superintendent Registrar's District (Newry)?

KG

Researching: Cuthbertson Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter Co. Derry; Jackson Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott Co. Derry; Neilly Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy Co. Antrim; Nixon Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble Co. Sligo

Offline IrishAussie16

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Re: Help with finding a passenger list record
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 16 September 21 10:20 BST (UK) »
KG, yes that's what I mean.


I've found all of the children's birth records except for William and Annie. I searched through all Annie, Anna, Ann and Anne M(a)cKnight in any 1860s.

So the earliest birth I found in 1868 was listed at caragologly and then after that the others were at Mount Norris. I think both are still apart of Newry, so still the same area. And with their wedding in Belleeks, I would think that the first 2 kids would be in the same area as well.

Katherine, I have considered that they may have lost other children in between as well. It's highly likely. I haven't looked through deaths at young children yet.

I'm still trying to figure out if I can find where John and Sarah worked as teachers. That would help work out if the William born in the workhouse is in my tree or not.
Yourell, McComiskey, Collins, Dawson, Ashton, McKnight, Bilsborough, Riethmuller