Author Topic: Two babies-one Mother???  (Read 447 times)

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Two babies-one Mother???
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 09 September 21 12:17 BST (UK) »
I think there's a simple reason for the 2 registrations.

Quote
1. Elizabeth Joss
born 02 February 1889
8 Valentine St. Belfast
Father: Alexander Joss and Mother: Sara (Strain)
Birth registered 23 Feb 1889 to John Barron - ID#9244501
These are my ancestors 100%
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02488/1923147.pdf
It's possible the father went to register the child and gave the home address as place of birth/thought child was born at home (remember he was in Scotland) or registrar assumed child born at home (as was more common). The fact that parents called their daughter Elizabeth in later records seems to confirm this is the child of those parents. 

Quote
2. Jane Joss
born 04 June 1889
no address but says (lying in hospital bed) Father from Scotland which is true
Father: Alexander Joss Mother: Sara Strain
Birth registered 17 August 1889 to John Johnston (Informant A. Clegg occupier at hospital)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02466/1915939.pdf
Note that lots of other births from the Lying in Hospital (not 'lying in hospital bed') on same page. The informant 'A. Clegg' would have been a member of staff at the Hospital. The name Jane for the child could have been an error and it looks like a batch of registrations were done by the hospital at a later date long after they were supposed to be done & mistakes were made. If you were to check the other births for that date there may be other duplicate registrations as well.

So, looks like the only mistake on Elizabeth's registration was place of birth. Date of birth likely correct one. The registration for Jane has, it would seem, incorrect name, date of birth but correct place of birth & parents.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline gaffy

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Re: Two babies-one Mother???
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 09 September 21 13:06 BST (UK) »
A quick check of Sarah's marriage address (52 Artillery Street) in the Belfast street directories of the 1870s-80s shows a Robert Graham there, followed by a Martha Graham. A Robert Graham with that address is buried in public ground at Belfast City Cemetery:
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7499.5162

His 1881 death registration indicates birth around 1820, says that he's married and shows a son John as informant:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06453/4854791.pdf

A Martha Graham is buried with other Graham and Joss family in F1 9 at the City Cemetery:
https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialSearch.aspx?GraveSection=F1&GraveNumber=9&CemeteryName=City%20Cemetery

Her 1905 death registration indicates birth around 1824, says that she is the widow of Robert Graham, and identifies Sarah Joss (the informant) as her grand daughter:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05596/4572962.pdf

Edited to add:

Also noticed that Sarah Joss is the informant for this Leathem son born in 1897 to mother Margaret Graham:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1897/02109/1802742.pdf

1901 (Margaret b. Monaghan)?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Dock_Ward/Valentine_Street/937987/
 

Offline Suemagoo

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Re: Two babies-one Mother???
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 09 September 21 16:53 BST (UK) »
Gaffy I'm so sorry for all the work you have done and provided, but I already have that. Robert and Martha Graham from 52 Artillery St were Sarah Joss's Grandparents. Sarah's Mother was Jane Graham. Sarah I believe was born illegitimate as when Jane Graham died she is listed as spinster and I can't find any birth record for Sarah or marriage record for Jane Graham to Robert Strain which was entered on Sara's marriage record.  Sara and Alexander only had one daughter Elizabeth Joss born in 1889. She marries and has several children and her Father Alexander ends up living with her and her husband Albert Davidson, later when Sarah dies in 1925. That is 100% accurate. So unless she was named Elizabeth Jane or Elizabeth Ann Jane and the hospital staff made several errors when recording the birth information, there must be a sister of Alexander Joss who came from Scotland, so maybe the sister came over to Belfast to have the baby as was suggested and they registered the baby as theirs?? Again so sorry for all the trouble, but I did learn about people who did and did not registered illegitimate births and also the hospital staff and the clerical errors that seem to have occurred a lot.

Thank you everyone. Stay safe and appreciate all your efforts to help me.


Offline gaffy

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Re: Two babies-one Mother???
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 09 September 21 17:09 BST (UK) »

Gaffy I'm so sorry for all the work you have done and provided, but I already have that.


Fair enough, at least I know not to waste any more time.  :)


Offline aghadowey

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Re: Two babies-one Mother???
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 09 September 21 19:38 BST (UK) »
Have you read through my earlier reply? I still think it is very highly unlikely that there were two separate children registered with the same parents but one illegitimate.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Suemagoo

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Re: Two babies-one Mother???
« Reply #14 on: Friday 10 September 21 00:19 BST (UK) »
Aghadowey,

Yes I did read your comment and after reading a second and third time, I now believe your explanation of events is correct!!! Sorry, for my daftness in reading but not actually fully understanding what you meant the first time.

I appreciate very much everyones help. Thanks again.

Cheers