Author Topic: Charles henry briggs.  (Read 3027 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Charles henry briggs.
« Reply #63 on: Thursday 16 September 21 03:27 BST (UK) »
I can't see a birth for George H Brown, 1865 or his sister Catherine/Katherine 1865  on the N.S.W.BMD.
They were both mentioned in Thomas J Briggs (1928) death in newspaper as his step-brother and step-sister......

Here is the newspaper cutting:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/122745124 Gundagai Times 14 December 1928. 
..... A step-brother is Mr. G. H. Brown, of Burra ; and a step sister, Miss Katie Brown, of Muttama. ....

Found George  ;D  at NSW BDM online index for births:
George H BROWN, parents as Simon & Ann F, birth registered Goulburn district. Ref 8691/1865.  I drilled down and his dob is 17 March 1865.  ..... ummmm..... and that leads back to another online tree which I mentioned earlier here:


.... , the tree owner has not logged on for at least 3 months.  It has John SMITH 1790 - 1889 and his wife as Sarah HOCKLEY1807-1896, and their daughter Ann (Hannah) F SMITH as 1829-1900.  Ann marries to William Thomas BRIGGS, 1806-1858.  There's an image of their marriage.  Both made X marks.   Ann's next marriage is to George Henry C (Simon) Brown, 4 July 1864, Gunning, - two children, George Henry 17 March 1865, and Catherine 1869, both born Muttama.  That husband dies 23 June 1876.  Ann next marries Frederick Rice.   Ann's father is shown as marrying in NSW 1823 and they note it as BDM 3111/1823 V18233111 3B.  He lived a very long life,  1790 - 1889, his death noted as 8 June 1889, Burwood (NSW).  His wife, Sarah (nee Hockley) her death 27 July 1896 and both burials are noted as Enfield, Burwood municipality, NSW.
.....ADD .....  eliminating this couple John and Sarah SMITH [/b][/u]- St Thomas Cemetery, C of E, Enfield headstones been photographed https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2448410/st.-thomas-anglican-cemetery.   :)  No mention of Ann SMITH as a daughter for that couple.
 
See photo of headstone showing John and Sarah SMITH and her Hockley family members memorialised on same headstone.   
See https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14060431 smh 29 July 1896.  Funeral Announcement for Sarah Smith, widow of John Smith.

....

I have BROWN and SMITH on direct lines on my own rural NSW tree, and it did eventually get itself sorted out with some difficult research, and some wallpaper bdm scripts which I donated to several family history groups and a website or two.  It needed both NSW BDM official transcriptions and careful examination of family Bible entries in the 1800s for bdm events in the NSW Darling Back Blocks.  Several times I simply paused and went on with researching on a different line before returning to Smith or Brown.  :) 

JM


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Offline Sandiehawk

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Re: Charles henry briggs.
« Reply #64 on: Thursday 16 September 21 04:47 BST (UK) »
At last I can see the birth for George H Brown 1865.

 I see he and wife Mabel Herring had a son and two daughters. (Ancestry tree)
The youngest called Annie Frances Sophia ( probably doesn't mean a thing)

If I ordered a Birth cert for George is it likely to give me any information about Ann Smith/Briggs?

I also found a marriage for Simon Brown and Ann Frances Bryan in 1864.  Reg no 3451

Sandie.

Offline sparrett

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Re: Charles henry briggs.
« Reply #65 on: Thursday 16 September 21 05:12 BST (UK) »
Hi Sandie,
Yes the BMD findings you are seeing have been there all along.

This may be the death of Catherine BROWN at Cootamundra.
BROWN Catherine Hester
8900/1943
Father SIMON
Mother HANNAH
At COOTAMUNDRA

So you have a woman who starts out as Ann SMITH
Becomes Annie BRIGGS
Becomes Annie Frances BRYAN
Becomes Annie Frances BROWN
Becomes and dies as Hannah RICE

Sue
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Offline majm

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Re: Charles henry briggs.
« Reply #66 on: Thursday 16 September 21 05:31 BST (UK) »
Hi  there,

If you order an official transcription you will save dollars, and you will receive a family history document as a pdf file that has all the info already typed up, matching the certified watermarked document from NSW BDM.  Those official transcriptions are accepted by all family history groups, including peak state bodies.     Here is the NSW Resources Board live link. 
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/ and scroll to :
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0  There are many resources listed there, including this one for official transcription agents :  https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html

Wivenhoe already posted the info for that 1865 birth registration at reply # 57 and I had noted that 1864 marriage at reply # 56. 
What to expect on an 1864 NSW BDM birth registration:   Here are the headings from a NSW bdm birth cert registered in 1867, close enough  :)

Date and place of birth
Name and whether present or not
Sex
Father's name, occupation, age and birthplace
Date and place of Marriage - previous issue
Mother's name, maiden name, age and birthplace

Informant (JM notes this igives the name, relationship and address, usually it is one of the parents, but it can be an older sibling, a grandparent, other close relative, a neighbour, landlord, midwife, etc).
Witness (1)  (2)  (3)  (JM notes 1 is reserved for doctor,  2 is reserved for Midwife and 3 is for an assistant to either 1 or 2 - eg 3 is for the helper supporting the baby's mum).
Particulars of Registration - this is for the Deputy Registrar at the local office to complete - name, date, locality.
Name if added after registration of birth.

So if you order the 1865 birth you will learn about of the details the INFORMANT provided to the local deputy registrar.  The information was given orally. 


At last I can see the birth for George H Brown 1865.

 I see he and wife Mabel Herring had a son and two daughters. (Ancestry tree)
The youngest called Annie Frances Sophia ( probably doesn't mean a thing)

If I ordered a Birth cert for George is it likely to give me any information about Ann Smith/Briggs?

I also found a marriage for Simon Brown and Ann Frances Bryan in 1864.  Reg no 3451

Sandie.
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline majm

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Re: Charles henry briggs.
« Reply #67 on: Thursday 16 September 21 05:54 BST (UK) »
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/144129351 Coota Herald, 16 April 1943.   

Here is an example of rural NSW etiquette rules that I experienced in my own childhood. 
 :) Any older woman was always known "Mrs" even if she had never married, never had a live in male companion and never had children.  You knew these gentlewomen as Mrs (then their own Christian names) then their birth surname. 

 :) Married women were Mrs (then their husband's Christian names) then their husband's surname. 
(Thankfully) .... That practice faded out in the 1970s, but I still receive mail from some of my very ancient rellies addressed to me as Mrs. (my husband's initials of his given names) and his surname (which I use too) - birthday cards, Christmas cards, Return Thanks letters ....   :D

Here is the Probate announcement for Catherine Esther BROWN 
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/144134075 20 April 1943 - Robert Henry Bruce BROWN as Executor.
 
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/122184943 Gundagai Indep. 26 October 1916

JM
 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Charles henry briggs.
« Reply #68 on: Thursday 16 September 21 06:38 BST (UK) »
Hi Sandie,
I'm not sure whether you are in lockdown but you might feel like a longish a repetitive but interesting read.
It will possibly extend your learning about Ann Smith's family.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139458456

In 1905. It tells of a matter before the Coroner's Court concerning a youth named Frederick RICE.
Careful reading reveals, or hints at, the relationships existing between the BRIGGs and this  youth.

He is stated to be about 16 years, illegitimate and in the care of John (Jack) BRIGGS and accused of arson. He knows who his mother is but not his father.

My thoughts on his birth

BROWN Frederick P C
21742/1889
Mother CATHERINE H.
Father not listed
At GUNDAGAI

So Ann SMITH's daughter's child.

One of  interesting aspects of the article  is information about the BRIGGS generations.

Sue

ADDING
The last day of the hearing
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139450821
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Charles henry briggs.
« Reply #69 on: Thursday 16 September 21 07:06 BST (UK) »
FYI
A son to Catherine too ;D

BROWN  Robert B 
11625/1892
Mother Catherine H
At COOTAMUNDRA

The executor in her will.
Sue
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Charles henry briggs.
« Reply #70 on: Thursday 16 September 21 08:55 BST (UK) »
His mother asserts here that Frederick Charles BROWN/RICE exhibited challenging behaviours and was not easy to bring up. 1902

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/144040177

His death was registered in both names he used.

BROWN Frederick C
9288/1931
42 YRS MENTAL HOSP
ORANGE

RICE Frederick C
9288/1931
42 YRS MENTAL HOSP
ORANGE

Sue
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Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Charles henry briggs.
« Reply #71 on: Thursday 16 September 21 09:11 BST (UK) »

Ancestry NSW Police Gazette 6 Jan 1864
https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/1942/images/31842_216734-00008?

..a man named John DAXTER who has been arrested by the Goulburn police charged with having violently assaulted a woman named Hannah BRIGGS......

(for TROVE...this name is probably DEXTER)

Charles Henry BRIGGS is your direct ancestor?


This is marriage for your Charles Henry BRIGGS?

NSW BDM marriage
4052/1876 BRIGGS  Charles Henry   marr.  KENNEWELL  Louisa Sarah   
@ Raymond Terrace

Why is Charles Henry BRIGGS in Raymond Terrace in 1876?.
What names do you see for witnesses?
What occupation for Charles Henry BRIGGS?
What denomination do you see for (church?) marriage?