Author Topic: Richard Cotchin/Scutchins abt 1780 Ridgmont Bed - 1803 7 yrs transportation???  (Read 1253 times)

Offline emjsw

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Richard Cotchin/Scutchins abt 1780 Ridgmont Bed - 1803 7 yrs transportation???
« on: Wednesday 15 September 21 14:33 BST (UK) »
Hello,
I wondered if anyone might be able to help me please?

I posted this also on the beginners and Armed forces Forums as I wasn't sure where to post.

My 6 x great grandfather Richard Cotchin/Scutchins baptised 1803 Ridgmont Beds to John and Elizabeth nee Landsberry.

Richard partners with Sarah (they may be married but I can't find the marriage and therefore her maiden name). They have Joseph 1800-1800, Mary 1801-1874 (goes on to partner William Draper - again can't find marriage) and Joseph 1804.

In 1803 Richard Cotchin ends up in gaol for stealing a silver watch and is sentenced to 7 years transportation https://apps.bedford.gov.uk/grd/detail.aspx?id=358 (Sarah must have been expecting Joseph when Richard was sentenced).

Richard petitions his sentence in Aug 1803:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=TNA%2FCCC%2F2C%2FHO19%2F00000700
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=TNA%2FCCC%2F2A%2FHO13%2F00018782
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=TNA%2FCCC%2F2A%2FHO13%2F00018879
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=TNA%2FCCC%2F2E%2FHO47%2F00005994

The right honourable Charles Yorke signs the letter. He recommends that Richard serves in the Army instead. Lots of people rally round to give him a good character ref:
National Archives copy paste

Report of Beaumont Hotham on 1 collective petition (11 people, of Ridgemont [Ridgmont]
Reference:   HO 47/36/26
Report of Beaumont Hotham on 1 collective petition (11 people, of Ridgemont [Ridgmont], Bedfordshire including churchwardens, the bailiff and farmers) on behalf of Richard Cotchin, convicted at the Bedfordshire Assizes, for the theft of a silver watch, property of James Levett. Evidences supplied by Moses Eagle, constable and James Levett. There is a letter from Samuel Whitbread. Grounds for clemency: previous good character, he and his family (also of good character) have resided in the parish for many years (the prisoner being born there), he is a young man 'fit for a Soldier.' Initial sentence: 7 years transportation. Recommendation: pardon on condition that he enlist as a soldier. Folios 314-319. 1803 Sept 4

The trouble is I can't find out what happens next, did he get turned down and sent to the US or Austrailia or did he enter the Army?

*  I have searched the Hulk registers, the Australian convicts register and Fold3 for military records. I can't find anything.

*  I also wondered what happened to Sarah, a Sarah Cotchin marries William Reading in 1808 in Ridgmont but is this Richard's Sarah or another one? If it is her then maybe Richard died (if they were married).

Richard's younger brother Thomas (baptised 1796 Ridgmont) joined 14th Foot Soldiers, 2nd Battalion sometime around 1814, maybe he followed in his brother's footsteps??

Any help in solving this mystery would be greatly appreciated.

Best wishes,
Emma
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)

Offline ciderdrinker

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,014
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Richard Cotchin/Scutchins abt 1780 Ridgmont Bed - 1803 7 yrs transportation???
« Reply #1 on: Friday 17 September 21 11:43 BST (UK) »
Hi
Not found him after the unfortunate incident of the watch but have found their marriage.
Richard Cotchins bach married ed Sarah Horn spinster by banns 22.4.1799 at Monken Hadley in London.
Apparentley it's near Barnet. Both say of this parish.Can only get the banns book and the transcription os no idea of witnesses.

possible burial for Richard at Stone Buckinghamshire Richard Cotchins 20.9.1803

Ciderdrinker

Offline cuffie81

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,028
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Richard Cotchin/Scutchins abt 1780 Ridgmont Bed - 1803 7 yrs transportation???
« Reply #2 on: Friday 17 September 21 16:41 BST (UK) »
My 6 x great grandfather Richard Cotchin/Scutchins baptised 1803 Ridgmont Beds to John and Elizabeth nee Landsberry.

I assume this date is a typo and you meant the Richard who was baptised on 02 April 1780?

If so, have you considered this Richard? The place would tie in with the marriage ciderdrinker posted.

GRO ref:
1860 Q2 Death: Richard Cotchin; Age 77 (b1783); Barnet; Vol 03A; Page 71;

Burial:
name: Richard Cotchin
buried: 21 May 1860; St Mary the Virgin, Monken Hadley, Barnet
age: 77 [born c1783]
abode: Union House


I also wondered what happened to Sarah, a Sarah Cotchin marries William Reading in 1808 in Ridgmont but is this Richard's Sarah or another one? If it is her then maybe Richard died (if they were married).

From the Beds FHS' transcripts, both were single, or at least there's no indication that either were widowed. Other marriage records around the same time do show whether either party were widowed.
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Hunt Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson

Offline cuffie81

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,028
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Richard Cotchin/Scutchins abt 1780 Ridgmont Bed - 1803 7 yrs transportation???
« Reply #3 on: Friday 17 September 21 16:46 BST (UK) »
Possible burial for Richard at Stone Buckinghamshire Richard Cotchins 20.9.1803

Ciderdrinker, did you find an age for this burial? I'm wondering if this Richard might have been the one who married in 1769, to Mary Thompson, in Stone, Bucks.
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Hunt Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson


Offline emjsw

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Richard Cotchin/Scutchins abt 1780 Ridgmont Bed - 1803 7 yrs transportation???
« Reply #4 on: Friday 17 September 21 17:04 BST (UK) »
Hi
Not found him after the unfortunate incident of the watch but have found their marriage.
Richard Cotchins bach married ed Sarah Horn spinster by banns 22.4.1799 at Monken Hadley in London.
Apparentley it's near Barnet. Both say of this parish.Can only get the banns book and the transcription os no idea of witnesses.

possible burial for Richard at Stone Buckinghamshire Richard Cotchins 20.9.1803

Ciderdrinker

Hello,
Thank you ever so much for taking a look at the marriage, I really apprciate you help. It is really hard to work out what happened to him in 1803, whether he was pardoned and joined the army or transported!
This marriage fits perfectly. I am currently investigating whether Richard Cotchin of Ridgmont went to Lonon and got married or whether the Richard Cotchins who married Sarah Horn was the one baptised 27 Jul 1783 at St Mary the Virgin, Monken Hadley, Barnet, Middlesex, England to Willaim and Mary or not.
Thanks again for your help and providing another avenue of investigation.
Best wishes Emma
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)

Offline emjsw

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Richard Cotchin/Scutchins abt 1780 Ridgmont Bed - 1803 7 yrs transportation???
« Reply #5 on: Friday 17 September 21 17:17 BST (UK) »
My 6 x great grandfather Richard Cotchin/Scutchins baptised 1803 Ridgmont Beds to John and Elizabeth nee Landsberry.

I assume this date is a typo and you meant the Richard who was baptised on 02 April 1780?

If so, have you considered this Richard? The place would tie in with the marriage ciderdrinker posted.

GRO ref:
1860 Q2 Death: Richard Cotchin; Age 77 (b1783); Barnet; Vol 03A; Page 71;

Burial:
name: Richard Cotchin
buried: 21 May 1860; St Mary the Virgin, Monken Hadley, Barnet
age: 77 [born c1783]
abode: Union House


I also wondered what happened to Sarah, a Sarah Cotchin marries William Reading in 1808 in Ridgmont but is this Richard's Sarah or another one? If it is her then maybe Richard died (if they were married).

From the Beds FHS' transcripts, both were single, or at least there's no indication that either were widowed. Other marriage records around the same time do show whether either party were widowed.

Hello,

Thank you for your help, yes that was a typo, thanks for that, I did indeed mean the one baptised 1780!

Thanks for looking up the burial for me as that would fit with the marriage to Sarah Horn in 1799, both the place and age. I think that the Richard who married Sarah Horn might be this one though:
Richard Cotchen baptised 1783 at St Mary the Virgin, Monken Hadley, Barnet, Middlesex, England to William and Mary. This would fit better with being 77 in 1860?

I think the Richard convicted in 1803 vanished around 1804 as that is the last land tax record I can find for him in Ridgmont, he paid rent to Moses Evans who gave him a good character ref when he was appealing his transportation. Richard's son Joesph was baptised in 1804. This doesn't make much sense though as in 1803 he was in gaol awaiting transportation or a pardon to join the army. It might be that he was pardoned in the end on the condition that he joined the army, was in Ridgmont in 1804 waiting to do so and then either joined the army or absconded so he didn't have to join (and probably sent out to fight in Europe) taking his family with him?

It is good to rule out the likely hood of him having passed away and Sarah marrying as a widow based on your findsings, thank you.

His daughter Mary married into the Draper family who I think were Romany (based on my Nan's DNA). It might be that Richard went off travelling with the Draper family to avoid a fate in the Army?

It is going to be hard to prove anything and raises so many mysteries!!!

Thanks again for your help,

Best wishes Emma
   
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)

Offline johnP-bedford

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,475
    • View Profile
Re: Richard Cotchin/Scutchins abt 1780 Ridgmont Bed - 1803 7 yrs transportation???
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 22 September 21 16:59 BST (UK) »

*  I also wondered what happened to Sarah, a Sarah Cotchin marries William Reading in 1808 in Ridgmont but is this Richard's Sarah or another one? If it is her then maybe Richard died (if they were married).


It is interesting to note that Sarah Cotchin's marriage to William Reading on 28 Nov 1808 is on the same day that Sophia Cotchin married John Smith of Eversholt. Sophia was daughter of John & Elizabeth Cotchin(s) baptised at Ridgmont on 7th Aug 1785 & therefore sister of Richard Scutchin/Cotchin, so is this the same family having an occasion. I cannot see a baptism of a Sarah, daughter of John & Elizabeth Cotchin, so maybe she is Richard's wife ?? as she's not down as a widow because he's not dead, and just gone off to be a soldier rather than being transported to Van Diemen's Land. Who knows?

Regards John   
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Partridge - North Beds; Northants & Peterborough
Bishop - Bedford; Hunts, Hemingford Grey
Allen - Hunts, Hemingford Abbotts
Clement - Croydon
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline emjsw

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Richard Cotchin/Scutchins abt 1780 Ridgmont Bed - 1803 7 yrs transportation???
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 22 September 21 21:58 BST (UK) »

*  I also wondered what happened to Sarah, a Sarah Cotchin marries William Reading in 1808 in Ridgmont but is this Richard's Sarah or another one? If it is her then maybe Richard died (if they were married).


It is interesting to note that Sarah Cotchin's marriage to William Reading on 28 Nov 1808 is on the same day that Sophia Cotchin married John Smith of Eversholt. Sophia was daughter of John & Elizabeth Cotchin(s) baptised at Ridgmont on 7th Aug 1785 & therefore sister of Richard Scutchin/Cotchin, so is this the same family having an occasion. I cannot see a baptism of a Sarah, daughter of John & Elizabeth Cotchin, so maybe she is Richard's wife ?? as she's not down as a widow because he's not dead, and just gone off to be a soldier rather than being transported to Van Diemen's Land. Who knows?

Regards John

Hi John,
That is really interesting, thank you very much for looking into Sophia. You are right it could mark a family occasion where both the women were related.
That is a really interesting theory as to what happened to Sarah as well,thanks for looking for her baptism. It is interesting that there isn't one.
I really appreciate your getting in touch with me about this and for looking in to it.
Best wishes
Emma
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)

Offline johnP-bedford

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,475
    • View Profile
Re: Richard Cotchin/Scutchins abt 1780 Ridgmont Bed - 1803 7 yrs transportation???
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 23 September 21 10:41 BST (UK) »
Found more info on the William Reading/Sarah Cotchin who married 1808

They baptised 4 children at Ridgmont as READING/REDDING- Rebecca 25 June 1809, Eli 16 Mar 1817, Elizabeth 29 May 1814 & Hannah 9 July 1820. 
William REDDING was buried at Ridgmont on 2 July 1822 aged 48 (born 1774)
Widow Sarah REDDINGS marries widower Joseph Foster at Ridgmont on 8 June 1824
Joseph & Sarah Foster baptised son William on 12 Oct 1826 at Ridgmont

1841 census at Ridgmont is..... (all born Beds)
Joseph Foster age 55 labourer
Sarah Foster age 55  (born 1786)
William Foster age 15
Elizabeth Redding age 25
Eli Redding age 20
Hannah Redding age 20 

Joseph Foster buried at Ridgmont on 17 April 1845 aged 63 (born 1782)

1851 census in Woburn is Sarah Foster, widow, age 68 born Ridgmont, housekeeper (born 1783)

1861 census at Ridgmont is...
Sarah Foster widow age 78 born Ridgmont, mother-in-law to....
Samuel Line age 39 & Elizabeth Line age 47 & their 4 children

Sarah Foster died Woburn RD in Sept 1862 aged 81 (born 1781)
   
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Partridge - North Beds; Northants & Peterborough
Bishop - Bedford; Hunts, Hemingford Grey
Allen - Hunts, Hemingford Abbotts
Clement - Croydon
----------------------------------------------------------------------------