Johnstone Family in Hanover 1823

[robjo2112]

Hi all. I was directed here because I am doing a family genealogy search and have got back to William Johnstone, VC. Yep, he was awarded the Victoria Cross. Born in Hanover in 1823, he must have had family who stayed there when he joined the British Royal Navy as a Stoker, making it to Leading Stoker when he did something remarkable and won the VC. He is my GG Grandfather and I am so proud, but there is no way I can find his birth family; mother, father, brothers, sisters etc in Hanover.

Can anyone help me link to that side of the family please? I have found an Otto and a Caroline, in Hanover, linked as Lutherans to the Marketkirche there. If I can get his birth father, then I can begin to go backwards.

Thank you, in anticipation. William's photo is attached, courtesy of the IWM in London.

Rob

[Karen McDonald]

Hi Rob,

This is an interesting one! For someone who was awarded such an honour, there is little to be found about him.

Interesting is the German WiKi webpage on the VC, which says:

Johnstones Nationalität wird diskutiert, möglicherweise stammte er aus Schweden und gab lediglich vor, Hannoverscher Bürger zu sein.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria-Kreuz

Translation:
Johnstone's nationality is a matter for discussion, as it is possible that he was actually from Sweden and just claimed to be a citizen of Hanover.

Hmmm...

Edit:
Just found this:

http://www.victoriacross.org.uk/bbbythes.htm

For the award of the Victoria Cross

[ London Gazette, 24 February 1857 ], Wardo Island, Baltic Sea, 12th August 1854, Lieutenant John Bythesea, Royal Navy ( and Stoker William Johnstone, Royal Navy ) of HMS 'Arrogant'. ( Gazetted as Commander John Bythesea, Royal Navy ).

On the 9th August 1854, having ascertained that an Aide-de-Camp of the Emperor of Russia had landed on the Island of Wardo, in charge of mail and despatches for the Russian General, Commander Bythesea obtained permission for himself and William Johnstone, a stoker, to proceed on shore with the view to intercept them.
Being disguised and well armed, they concealed themselves till the night of the 12th, when the mail-bags were landed, close to the spot where they lay secreted in the bushes. The mails were accompanied by a military escort, which passed close to them, and which, as soon as it was ascertained that the road was clear, took its departure.

Availing themselves of this opportunity, Commodore Bythesea and the stoker, attacked the five men in charge of the mail, took three of them prisoners, and brought them in their own boat on board the 'Arrogant'. The despatches were carried to General Baraguay d'Hilliers, who expressed himself in the highest terms of approval.

( Despatch from Captain Yelverton, enclosed in a letter from Vice-Admiral Sir C Napier, of 31st January 1856 )

John Bythesea was invested with his Victoria Cross by Queen Victoria in Hyde Park on 26th June 1857.

The background of Stoker William Johnstone is subject to some debate. Although he was gazetted thus, there was no one on the 'Arrogant's' muster list of this name. There was a Leading Stoker John Johnstone, who was born in Hannover, Germany, on the ship at the time, and this is the man usually credited with winning the Victoria Cross.

However, it is doubtful that he would also have spoken Swedish. It is possible therefore, that Lieutenant Bythesea's companion was one of the foreign nationals whom Sir Charles Napier had recruited in Stockholm on the way to the Baltic, to solve the problem of an under-strength crew, and that Johnstone was an anglicised version of Johanssen. ( Source: Spink Sale Catalogue ).

William Johnstone ( Johanssen? ) did not attend the first investiture of the Victoria Cross in Hyde Park on 26th June 1857, and most unusually, his VC was sent to him by registered post, whereas all the other recipients who were overseas at the time of the first investiture had their VCs presented to them personally by their Comander-in-Chief.

Medal entitlement of Stoker William Johnstone - Royal Navy ( HMS 'Arrogant' )

Victoria Cross
Baltic Medal ( 1854-55 )


The plot thickens...

[robjo2112]

It most certainly does. I know he was German as we now have proof of that, so the Swedish connection is now defunct, from Lord Ashcroft himself, so a trustworthy source. But the man is an enigma wrapped up in a riddle of who his father was. He lived in St. Germans (ironically) in Cornwall and his son, William Richard, also called Richard John on baptism records, after him, migrated from Cornwall to Goole, of all places and begat my Grandfather.

My issue, as stated, is who the hell is William/John's father? I know there were some Johnstones in Hanover at the time, as Lutherans worshipping in the Marketkirche there.

I will possibly never know, but his wife was later 'looked after by the Patriotic fund' after his death at sea.

Any more anyone?

Rob

[robjo2112]

I do have a document that has Bythesea as a Commodore. Is that higher than the Lt? I think it is, but do not understand Naval ranks enough to know for sure.

[Ashtone]

I do have a document that has Bythesea as a Commodore. Is that higher than the Lt?

Yes, it is. Commodore is also higher than Captain (in Royal Navy rankings).
Does a marriage record exist for William/John and Caroline Symons?  If so, what father's name and occupation does it give for William/John?
I note there was also a daughter Mary Jane, born in 1852 (registered under "Johnson"). Would be interesting to see how father's name appears on both GRO birth records (e.g. William or John).

You mentioned that "I know he was German as we now have proof of that...".  Can I just ask how you know your ancestor was definitely German?

[Ashtone]

Rob - Are you sure you have the correct William Johnson/Johnstone as your ancestor?

According to your great-grandfather's (William Richard Johnson) 1884 Devon marriage record, his father was William Johnson (deceased) -- a Private in the RMLI (Royal Marines Light Infantry).

Apparently, this William Johnson was from Devon (not Germany).
Baptised 23 April 1826 at Kenton, Devon (parents John & Anne).
1851 census - unmarried Private (Marines) at the Royal Marine Barracks in East Stonehouse, Devon.
Possible death: 1855 in East Stonehouse, Devonshire.

The East Stonehouse connection continues as WRJ's mother Caroline Johnson (age 57) is a nurse residing at 15 Emma Place, East Stonehouse in the 1881 census.

[garstonite]

if Hillhurst is right - here is the family 1841

William Johnson was a man born in 1826. During the 1841 UK Census he was 15 years old and lived in Devon.
LAST NAME:   Johnson
FIRST NAME:   William
MIDDLE NAME:   
BIRTH YEAR:   1826
BIRTH PLACE:   Devon
COUNTY:   Devon
AGE:   15
GENDER:   Male
RESIDENCE:   575
Kenton, Devon
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:   
John Johnson (50, Male)
Ann Johnson (40, Female)
William Johnson (15, Male)
Mary Johnson (12, Female)
John Johnson (5, Male)
Louisa Johnson (1, Female)

[Ashtone]

On her 1872 Devon marriage record to Arthur Robert Smith, daughter Mary Jane Symons Johnson's father is also William Johnson (Occupation: Marine). Same occupation on her brother's 1884 marriage record.

1851 census - Caroline Symons (age 26, laundress, married) living with sister Mary Ann and two young boys named Badcock (lodgers). Location: East Stonehouse, Devon. As we know, William Johnson (RMLI) was stationed at the barracks in East Stonehouse in 1851. Interesting that Caroline is still "Symons" on the census, but is listed as "married".

1871 census - Caroline Johnson (nee Symons) is back in St German, Cornwall again. Living with mother Jane and son William (age 18). In the Occupation column for Caroline, it does indicate "Pay from Patriotic Fund".

All things considered, I think William Johnson from Devon is the father. Haven't located a marriage record yet. Seeing the father's name and occupation on the 1852 and 1854 birth records would help shed light on the mystery. 

FindMyPast shows an 1855 death record for a William Johnson in Devon.

I notice the Wikipedia page for William Johnstone (VC recipient) mentions a wife named Caroline who received "Pay from Patriotic Fund" (see 1871 census). But it depends on who is updating this Wikipedia page. Personally, I think someone has muddled up these two men. Also, the Wikipedia page doesn't mention the daughter Mary Jane. 

Would be interesting to know the home address Johnstone's VC medal was posted to in 1857 (?) But I suppose that detail is lost to history.

[Annette7]

Afraid I agree completely with both Hillhurst and garstonite - can see absolutely no link with 'Hanover' at all.

Nor can I find a marriage between Caroline Symons and William Johnson/Johnstone.   Two children both born St. Germans Mar.1852 (Mary Jane Johnson) and Richard John Mar.1854 as Johnstone - both births show mmn as Symons - can't find baptisms for either and suspect parents weren't legally married.

Annette