1861 Census - Missing Caroline Mary Culpitt & Family Don't Fit

[cjc1867]

Hi
I have a problem, I am researching a Caroline Mary Culpitt who was buried at Llandyfeisant Church in 1952 age 92.

I am in touch with the family associated with Caroline Mary and they have given me some details. When Grt Aunty Matilda died in 1994, the family found a note that had Caroline's details on it saying she was an orphan. That information was passed on by Hon David Rice, brother of Lord Dynevor.

No one in the family had heard of Caroline at that point and that's were they started to build a family tree, I assume.

Caroline was born in London in 1859 and according to her baptism, her mother was Mary Culpitt. They lived at 71 Grange Street, Hoxton. Her mother Mary was noted as an Organist (Same church as Caroline's baptism). No father was mentioned.

In 1871 Census Caroline was in St. Margaret's Orphanage for Girls in East Grindstead at the age of 12. 10 years later Caroline is still there but working as a Servant.

1901 - 1911 Censuses, Caroline is now working for the Dynevor family as a Nurse/Nanny and later she became the Housekeeper. The Dynevor family let Caroline stay at Dynevor Castle when she retired until her death in 1952.

This is were a few spanners are thrown into the works by me....at first I couldn't find Caroline in 1861 Census or her mother. The surname was misspelled as Culptt, and there's a Caroline living at 71 Grange Street (coincidence or what), same age but there's a George Culpitt who is down as her father but no wife. The other member is Marion Culpitt aged 26 also down as his daughter.

Mary Culpitt was the daughter of Henry Culpitt and Mary Willis, who was born in 1836ish, as her baptism was in 1836.

It was first thought that Mary had died and that's why Caroline ended up in the Orphanage, probably earlier than 1871.

My spanner in the works, doesn't look right at all as George Culpitt was from Ipswich and doesn't appear to fit into the other family tree.

I can only think that the baptism is wrong, but how many Caroline Mary Culpitt's were born in 1859 and baptised living at 71 Grange Street?

Maybe the birth certifcate will help...

What do you guys think?

Colin

[CaroleW]

There is a Caroline Culpitt birth Dec qtr 1860 Lewisham - not Caroline Mary.  Mothers maiden name was Allen

Caroline Mary was b 12.2.1859 according to her baptism on 31.7.1859 - mother Mary

There is no birth reg for your Caroline so you couldn't buy a birth cert

1861 - I think Marian could be Mary & George is her father & therefore Caroline's grandfather

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

I agree with Carole

I think that Marion could be George's daughter in 1861 and Caroline his granddaughter. Marion gives her birth place as St Alphege City. This could be her baptism,


St Alphage, London Wall, City of London
28 Jun 1835
Mary
Daur of George and Ann CULPITT
11 Fell St.
Porter
said to be born 22 May 1835

George and son George are living at 13 Fell St in 1851.



It looks like Mary might have died in 1862,

Mary CULPITT    Sep Q 1862    Shoreditch    1c  113
Age: 27


Burial
London, England, City of London and Tower Hamlets Cemetery Registers
Daybook of Burials
Tuesday 26 Aug 1862
4889
Mary Culpitt
Abode:  Walbrook ??
Parish:  Hoxton
Age:    27
Mode of Interment:  2c (dittoed from above)
Hour:  3
Certificate received:  Yes 
Remarks:  Pr?    D 11


Regards,
Daisy

[Daisypetal]

There is a Mary CULPITT born 1859 in Shoreditch with no mother's maiden name, I wonder if they added the Caroline later?


Mary CULPITT    Mar Q 1859    Shoreditch    1c  105


I can't find it on the GRO site.

[jonw65]

There is a Mary CULPITT born 1859 in Shoreditch

Also indexed
BRADLEY, MARY       
Mother's Maiden Surname: CULPITT 
GRO Reference: 1859  M Quarter in SHOREDITCH  Volume 01C  Page 105

[Tickettyboo]

May be relevant to that 1861 census and  Caroline being an orphan?
City of London and Tower Hamlets Cemetery Registers
Burial 26 Aug 1862 of a Mary Culpitt, aged 27, of Walbrook (different address but they may have moved since the census)

Boo

[cjc1867]

Hi
Sorry been away, but thank you for your information and I agree with most of your findings. However, the family member I am involved with is adamant that she has done a thorough research.

If so, then how can she have the same baptism living at 7 Grange Street, Hoxton and then in 1861 Census George Culpitt is living there with 2 so called daughters and one being Caroline born the same year as her Caroline...

I have looked at a few family trees on Ancestry and in 1835, George Culpitt and wife Ann Bayley had a daughter baptised in 1835, living at 11 Fell Street, George is then back there in 1851 living at 13 Fell Street which was turned into a Warehouse with his son George.

Ann, Mary/Marion's mother died in 1840, in 1841 and 1851 Census there is a Marion who lived with an aunty Mary Stedman in Kent so that could be her.

George Culpitt died in 1861 in the 2nd qtr according to the other public trees.

The other Mary Culpitt was born and baptised in 1836, so she is entirely different to this other Mary/Marion born and baptised in 1835.

I need someway of proving this....

Colin

[Tickettyboo]

Hi
Sorry been away, but thank you for your information and I agree with most of your findings. However, the family member I am involved with is adamant that she has done a thorough research.

If so, then how can she have the same baptism living at 7 Grange Street, Hoxton and then in 1861 Census George Culpitt is living there with 2 so called daughters and one being Caroline born the same year as her Caroline...

Bottom line, for any of us, is to look at other tress, take on board what they say and THEN decide for ourselves, based on what the records say, is the most likely scenario.
Sometimes the jury is out and neither we, or the other tree owners can show, within reasonable doubt what actually happened.

For me, that means I don't know one way or another so can't be sure. In that case I leave it a while in the hope that something may turn up that helps.

For some folk I have been waiting decades, taking them out now and then, dusting them off and starting from scratch to see if I can now make sense of it. I've had some successes but still have people that are in limbo as I just can't find anything definite.

I'd rather leave them in limbo till either something turns up or I shuffle off my mortal coil and hopefully get to ask them myself (God willing) - but that's just me :-)

Boo

[cjc1867]

Hi
Researching the surname 'Culpitt', it appears they came from 2 places and settled in London.

Culpitt Families:

Henry Culpitt's family came from Norfolk (The family Tree I am doing now)

George Culpitt's family came from Suffolk

************************************************

There appears that 2 Mary Culpitts died in 1862 in London, one being August 1862 and the other in Sept 1862.

August was the burial and the other record was the death, but it said Sept..... so Sept Qtr.

Getting confused.

Colin