Author Topic: Catholic Chapels Hereford  (Read 171 times)

Offline Familysearcher123

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Catholic Chapels Hereford
« on: Monday 20 September 21 16:26 BST (UK) »
Hello,

I hope someone is able to help me with information about Catholic Chapels in Hereford.

My 2nd great grandparents married in 1864 at the Catholic Chapel in Broad Street, which I have visited in the past.

Today I have received the 1856 marriage certificate of the sister of my great grand mother, who I had alway presumed married in the same chapel.

However the certificate details The Catholic Chapel Moor Street.

I am unable to find a record online of this chapel also looked at street view and there is no obvious building that could have been a chapel.

There is waste ground and new buildings at end of road so I am wondering if this chapel was a temporary building ?

Any thoughts would be gratefully received

Regards

Louise


Offline mazi

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Re: Catholic Chapels Hereford
« Reply #1 on: Monday 20 September 21 19:14 BST (UK) »
This link to the 1887 ordnance survey suggests that the present day Moor St did not exist in 1856.

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qxx/

However it does show two buildings in the fields between Prior St and Richmond place, close to where Moor St is today, the chapel may have been one of these, but swallowed up by later railway developments.


Mike

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Catholic Chapels Hereford
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 21 September 21 00:45 BST (UK) »
I hope someone is able to help me with information about Catholic Chapels in Hereford.

My 2nd great grandparents married in 1864 at the Catholic Chapel in Broad Street, which I have visited in the past.

Today I have received the 1856 marriage certificate of the sister of my great grand mother, who I had alway presumed married in the same chapel.

However the certificate details The Catholic Chapel Moor Street.

I am unable to find a record online of this chapel also looked at street view and there is no obvious building that could have been a chapel.


The church on Broad Street is St. Francis Xavier. It opened 1839. Jesuits had a mission in Hereford 1773-1858. Succeeded by the Benedictines who also had Belmont Abbey, 2 miles from Hereford. (Info from Wiki article about St. Francis Xavier church.)
I wonder if the Benedictine order had a little chapel in Hereford before taking over St. Francis Xavier. The Catholic Church in England operated as a mission until the restoration of the hierarchy in 1850. There was no formal parish structure before then. There was rivalry between religious orders in some areas.

History of St. Francis Xavier Church and Catholic mission and chapels in Hereford before it was built.  18thC.: Franciscans used a garret in Church St. and the Misses Etheridge had a chapel in their house on Broad St.
https://www.sfxhereford.org.uk/history

Was there a Catholic school in Moor Street? Use of a schoolroom as a chapel was common in 19th century. Mass was said in private houses, barns, rooms in pubs.
Is there a surviving marriage register for St. Francis Xavier in 1850s? Does it have marriages in 1856?
Does Hertfordshire county archives have Catholic registers?
GENUKI was no use for Hereford. It only has a list of Anglican churches.
Cowban


Offline Familysearcher123

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Re: Catholic Chapels Hereford
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 21 September 21 16:18 BST (UK) »
Thank you both for the quick replies, the history of Broad Street Chapel and other information.

The map is very useful and it does seem logical that as called a chapel it was not at this time a permanent building.
A lot to get head round, as always with research a lot more questions always thrown up.

Thank you again for your help

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Catholic Chapels Hereford
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 21 September 21 23:39 BST (UK) »
Thank you both for the quick replies, the history of Broad Street Chapel and other information.

The map is very useful and it does seem logical that as called a chapel it was not at this time a permanent building.

There are several meanings of chapel including:
place of worship attached to institution or private house;
place of worship not of the Established Church*;
subordinate church for remote parishioner.
("Oxford Dictionary")

*The Established Church in England = Church of England

What was the wording on your ancestors' 1864 marriage certificate? Was the venue written as "the Catholic Chapel in Broad Street" or "St. Francis Xavier Roman Catholic Church"? 

Cowban

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Re: Catholic Chapels Hereford
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 22 September 21 08:37 BST (UK) »
Their certificate reads: 1864 Marriage solemized 'at the Catholic Chapel Broad Street'' in the 'District' of 'Hereford' in the Count'ies' of 'Hereford and Monmouth'

I had presumed as the Broad Street chapel had no been recognised as a ‘proper’ church at this time?

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Catholic Chapels Hereford
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 22 September 21 18:10 BST (UK) »
Their certificate reads: 1864 Marriage solemized 'at the Catholic Chapel Broad Street'' in the 'District' of 'Hereford' in the Count'ies' of 'Hereford and Monmouth'

I had presumed as the Broad Street chapel had no been recognised as a ‘proper’ church at this time?

It depends on what you mean by a "proper" church and who was using the words "church" or "chapel" and the context.
St Francis Xavier Church was opened 1839. A representative of Queen Victoria attended the opening ceremony, the first time a royal representative had been present at the opening of a Catholic since the Reformation. It was definitely a church not a chapel. There may be newspaper reports.

A wedding ceremony in a Catholic church in England had no legal validity unless a registrar was present. The registrar was in charge of filling in the civil register. Standard wording on a marriage certificate would have been policy or custom of the registry office. Hereford District and perhaps other districts in Herefordshire may have called every Catholic church a chapel, in line with the dictionary definition of a chapel as a place of worship not of the Established Church, i.e. not Church of England.

It's still common in Scotland to refer to a Catholic church as "the chapel". My local Catholic church is almost 200 years old and is now the cathedral for the diocese but some non-Catholics would call it "the chapel". The term distinguishes it from "kirk" (meaning church), the place of worship of the  majority Christian denomination, Church of Scotland, which is Presbyterian and from "church", the place of worship of the Episcopal Church in Scotland, which is Anglican.
 
Discrimination laws against minority religious denominations were gradually relaxed in England. There was a licensing system for their places of worship. The Second Catholic Relief Act 1791 permitted public places of worship and schools, under certain conditions. A Catholic place of worship had to be registered at Quarter Sessions, wasn't allowed a steeple or bell and doors had to be left unlocked during services. Surviving licences may be in county archives. Applications may have been in the name of the clergyman or the owner of the property.
 
"Returns of Roman Catholic Chapels registered 1791-1852" National Archives RG31

1836 "Return of Dissenting Meeting Houses and Roman Catholic Chapels in England and Wales" [Parliamentary Paper]. gives meeting houses and chapels registered up to that year.

The religious census 1851 included R.C. and Protestant nonconformist churches and chapels. It gives attendance at services on 30th March 1851 + information on buildings. National Archives HO129. Some local record offices have a copy of returns in their county.
1852 Act of Parliament transferred registration of places of worship to Registrar General.

Website "Researching Historic Buildings in the British Isles" has articles on ecclesiastical buildings with timelines, source lists and links to further information.
https://www.buildinghistory.org
Relevant topics include: "Nonconformists", "Nonconformist churches and chapels", "Survey and valuation of ecclesiastical property".

National Archives guide to Catholic research
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/catholics/

A standard work is "Catholic Missions and Registers 1770-1880" (6 volumes) by Michael Gandy.

The Catholic Record Society published transcriptions of many historic Catholic registers a century ago. Introductions to each transcription often include history of the mission and churches. 

You could look at census returns for Moor Street in 1851 & 1861 to see if there were any residents whose occupation was religious or educational.   
 
Cowban

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Re: Catholic Chapels Hereford
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 22 September 21 18:19 BST (UK) »
Thank you, lots of information, it certainly was an interesting time.
I will have a look on the census as you suggest
Thank you again