Author Topic: Assistance Appreciated  (Read 566 times)

Offline Dobhren

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Assistance Appreciated
« on: Tuesday 21 September 21 19:44 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone.  I've tried to research this family ring that's been passed down with no luck. 

Picture provided, which was hard to capture, so here's a little more detail in my layman's terms:
- Top half has horizontal lines in the background of the 2 crescent moons
- Lower half has the [more visible] vertical lines behind the 1 crescent moon
- Motto below: Patientia Victrix

My dad passed away in 2019, so I'm unable to find out anything more he may have known other than it was passed down through generations.

~ With much gratitude ~

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Assistance Appreciated
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 21 September 21 21:08 BST (UK) »
The lines are called hatching.

There were various systems in use, but modern convention has vertical lines denoting gules (red), and horizontal lines denoting azure (blue).
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Kiltpin

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Re: Assistance Appreciated
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 21 September 21 21:21 BST (UK) »
We should start with the blazon - that is to say, the written description of the arms in heraldic language. 

"Per fess Azure and Gules three crescents Argent" It has to be either Argent (silver), or Or (gold). I am calling it Argent (silver), because Or is shown as stipples, or little dots. 

I have looked up Papworth for this blazon and nothing comes close. I have to say that these arms do not look particularly British. The "Per fess" is Germanic, possibly from the Holy Roman Empire.

The other thing to note is that if there had been someone in your family who had been granted a coat of arms, you would have known about it. It is not the kind of knowledge that is forgotten through the generations. 

Regards 

Chas
Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
India - Scotland - Australia


Offline Kiltpin

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Re: Assistance Appreciated
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 21 September 21 21:39 BST (UK) »
A dictionary of mottoes gives only one surname for the motto "Patientia Victrix" and that is Dalton. The General Armory gives many Daltons, but none are "Per fess". They seemed to be very heavily into cross-crosslets and lions. This even more leads me to believe that the arms are not Dalton, nor are they British. 

Regards 

Chas
Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
India - Scotland - Australia

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Assistance Appreciated
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 21 September 21 21:47 BST (UK) »
Possible mention of Aumarle or Almerle family in the description of Brook House in the parishof Heywood, Wiltshire,

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brook,_Heywood

See "Description by Aubrey", and the windows of the "canopie chamber".
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Kiltpin

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Re: Assistance Appreciated
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 21 September 21 22:28 BST (UK) »
Possible mention of Aumarle or Almerle family in the description of Brook House in the parishof Heywood, Wiltshire,

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brook,_Heywood

See "Description by Aubrey", and the windows of the "canopie chamber".
 

Good Find, KG! 

The General Armory has Aumarle with that blazon, but no Almerle.   

So, Dobhren, if you are related, this will take you back to before 1650. 

Regards 

Chas
Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
India - Scotland - Australia

Offline Dobhren

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Re: Assistance Appreciated
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 21 September 21 22:38 BST (UK) »
Thank you for the responses so far.  Youíre confirming how much of a puzzle this is to solve.  I did see Dalton listed in some older publication, but thanks to this groupís knowledge and resources, able to confirm it doesnít match up.

Agreed about your comment if it was something passed down, it would have been shared knowledge - but I'm also aware of how even recent "family" were... quick to pronounce some of the family worthless to degrade any importance in as recent as my paternal grandparentsí generation. This ring is the only other physical trace of my grandparents aside from my grandmother's Shakespeare library from when she was in college.  I'm not looking for anything material to arise or to claim something, only to know how this piece of ancestry fits and from whence it came.

Damerel is a funny name, in that it can be found in village names still today (and from an old parish in Plymouth called Stoke Damerel) in Devonshire - these were mentioned in a Damerel family tree book passed down to me from my dad some years ago. In the early 2000s, a friend helped do a road trip to visit Sydenham Damerel and Milton Damerel, and included a stop in Exeter in the cemetery.  According to that same book (packed in storage atm so unfortunately I can't put my hands on it), one of its derived spellings is from a French D'Abermarle (sp) back around the time of the Dooms Day records; there was a description of the crest the French noble had, and I don't remember it, but I think it was noted at a later time that he did lose his lands.  (Again, I have no illusions of grandeur here.)  The print I have of the Dooms Day book, says the name was spelled D'Aumale. Thoughts? 

We have the Carmichael (my motherís paternal grandmother) and the McNaught (MacNachtan/MacNectan Ė my paternal grandmother) heritages covered.  Damerel is the angle for which I only have this ring to lend a clue.

So in writing this, you have both connected a dot here with the Aumarle....

Offline Dobhren

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Re: Assistance Appreciated
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 21 September 21 22:46 BST (UK) »
Sincerest apologies. Meant to add that I'm guessing I mis-remembered that spelling from the family tree book that included a 'b' in there.

Offline Dobhren

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Re: Assistance Appreciated
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 21 September 21 22:49 BST (UK) »
Apologies again. I did come across this note.  Would it happen to be in the resources you are both referencing for the crest?

"Inquisitions Post Mortem
8 February 1362 : William de Alba Marlia or Alba Marlea, knight. [2]

Somerset inquest taken at Somerton, Monday the feast of St Valentine, 36EIII. The manor of Lymyngton held jointly with John Dabernon, Henry Percehay, John Boys and Thomas Aumarle, who survive, to them and their heirs and assigns, of the heir of John de Beauchamp of Somerset, a minor in the king's wardship by a moiety of a knight's fee. He died on Monday after St Nicholas last. William his son, aged 12 years and more, is his heir.
Devon inquest taken at Wodebery, Monday in the fourth week of Lent 36EIII. Two parts of the manor of Wodebery held of the king in chief by knight's service for two parts of a knight's fee. He held no other lands in the escheator's bailiwick."

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Aumarle-5

Could be that I did see a 'b; in the name after all?