Author Topic: Thomas Livermore born 1787  (Read 378 times)

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Thomas Livermore born 1787
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 26 September 21 09:28 BST (UK) »
James and Eleanor nee Buttel seem to have had several children bapt Little Abington
Susanna 1786
Thomas 1787
Ann 1789
William 1791
Elizabeth 1793
William (again) 1795
Sarah 1798
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline doordie

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Re: Thomas Livermore born 1787
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 26 September 21 11:38 BST (UK) »
I don't have any records for Mary's second marriage, so sorry.  Some time ago there was a post on another site by someone who said he (I think it was a he) was descended from an in-between partnering of Mary's after Thomas had left and before she remarried someone else and had subsequent children.  This person had been to Tasmania and out of curiosity looked for the ford where Thomas drowned.  The UK line of inquiry didn't interest me at the time and stupidly I didn't make a note of it.  It may have been on tapatalk/australian/surnamesgroup but I can't find it, nor on other websites I've searched.  This person obviously had done extensive research into Mary.  I'll keep on searching, all I remember is that it was on a thread concerning Thomas Livermore.
Thank you so much for the list of James' and Eleanor's children.  I'll see if I can start a tree down from them.

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Thomas Livermore born 1787
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 26 September 21 13:01 BST (UK) »
Looks like Mary went back to Balsham and marriead a John Richardson. She is on 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses there. She was born in Withersfield abt 1787 -8. In 1861 she has son William Livermore b abt 1814 living with her as well as her younger Richardson children. William's birth would have been after Thomas was transported so presumably the son of whoever was her partner before marriage to John Richardson. William was born in Balsham. Can't find Mary's baptism, but Withersfield is over border in Suffolk, so may not be on-line.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate


Offline LizzieL

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Re: Thomas Livermore born 1787
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 26 September 21 14:02 BST (UK) »
William Livermore was baptised as the son of Peter Rumbold and Mary Livermore on 25 Jul 1814 at Balsham. He may later have had children with his half sister Amy Richardson.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Thomas Livermore born 1787
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 26 September 21 14:24 BST (UK) »
There is also a Sarah Livermore spinster who gives her father's name as John Richardson when she marries Robert Mynott in 1843
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Thomas Livermore born 1787
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 26 September 21 14:32 BST (UK) »
Sarah baptised 21 Jun 1819, father John Richardson, mother Mary Livermore. Note on transcript: Married woman her husband is transported. Jno Richardson the father (Freereg)

also
John Richardson bapt 23 Oct 1820, father John Richardson, mother Mary Livermore. Same note about Mary being married and husband transported.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline doordie

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Re: Thomas Livermore born 1787
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 26 September 21 14:50 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the Richardson link, found him!  The "he" is ... ... and, on August 12, 2018, he posted on the wordpress site:  Norfolk Plains, Lynne's Family:
"Thomas Livermore was transported for attempting to murder my G-G-G-G-grandmother, Mary Lucas, to whom he was married.  She was pregnant by someone else.  I'm descended from one of her later liaisons - with a John Richardson - whom she ultimately married (long after Thomas was transported, but before his drowning).
"D'you have a location for Livermore's Ford?  I visited Tasmania a decade ago and, out of curiosity, went to look at the S Esk at Longford.  A big river which I wouldn't like to try to wade...... but I wasn't really certain that i was in the right spot or even that he lost his life on the S Esk rather than some lesser tributary
"... ..., London"

Given the Rumbold baptism you found, Mary's son William could not have been a child of Thomas's as  Thomas's attack on Mary happened on the "tenth day of August in the fiftieth year of the reign of our sovereign Lord George the third", so 10 Aug, 1810 (?) (thank goodness we've simplified things).  I would assume he left home immediately.  I don't know when he was arrested but his trial was on Wednesday, 27th March, 1811, adjourned to Thursday morning.  Sentenced to be hanged, Pardoned on condition of transportation for Life.  Much of what followed is well documented and he was on a positive tack, until he drowned.  But none of that is relevant to your quest or to tracing descendants of Thomas's siblings.
I'm grateful for the direction finders you've given me.

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Thomas Livermore born 1787
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 26 September 21 15:12 BST (UK) »
So it looks like the Livermore descendant you found would be descended from John Livermore (1820), son of Mary (nee Lucas) and John Richardson. But although he has the Livermore surname he would not have any Livermore DNA.
James (1811) Livermore's descendants would have Livermore DNA if he was Thomas's son. I agree from the timing of his birth, he was unlikely to be someone else's.

It looks as though Thomas's father James was the illegitimate son of Ann Livermore, so he would not carry a Livermore Y chromosome, but would match other Livermores through autosomal DNA. . 
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline doordie

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Re: Thomas Livermore born 1787
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 26 September 21 16:09 BST (UK) »
Correct, but I may try to trace David Livermore anyway as he seems to have shown an interest in the Livermores.
I did appreciate the notes that excused Mary from remarrying.
And that was an interesting twist, if Thomas's father, James, was illegitimate.  (I'm still trying to get my head around Y-chromosomes, mitochondrial haplogroups(?) ... and now autosomal DNA.)