Author Topic: How useful is Griffith's Valuation?  (Read 335 times)

Offline dave62448

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How useful is Griffith's Valuation?
« on: Tuesday 28 September 21 20:17 BST (UK) »
I've been working on my grandfather's family for decades. John Halliday bootmaker b 1879 his parents were John Halliday b about 1809 and his third wife Christina McCord b about 1839 - her father was John and lived in Ballystrudder Islangmagee as did her husband when they were married.

His children beginning with his second wife were born in Ballycarry nearby even though his residence was in Carrickfergus, but I can find no Hallidays in Ballycarry or Templecorran around that time.

Does the absence of anyone of the surname from Grifftith's mean they didn't live there? I know it wasn't a census per se - were these tenants heads of families?

Also I attach an odd note from elsewhere in Antrim (Ahoghill) and wonder about the name Haliday in parenthesis - what could that mean? All of this is a precursor to my trying to read all 515 pages of Griffith's for Shankill in Belfast Upper. Any thoughts or information would be much appreciated.

Offline Jon_ni

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Re: How useful is Griffith's Valuation?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 28 September 21 23:04 BST (UK) »
in parenthesis was a means of differentiating 2 people in the same townland with the same name just as senior and junior would. Explained https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Richard-Griffiths.html and http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/history-heritage/irish-genealogy/understanding-the-valuati/townlands-and-occupiers/
Perhaps James Craig's mother's maiden surname was Haliday.
Yes the tenants were heads of families, the person responsible for paying the rent but could be eg a grandfather with 2 married sons plus wives & their children entirely unrecorded if still living in the 'family farm'.
Not sure why one would need to read all 515 pages individually when they are indexed on multiple free and subscription sites.

Offline dave62448

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Re: How useful is Griffith's Valuation?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 29 September 21 14:42 BST (UK) »
Thank you, I'll have a look at the Griffith's links.

I have gone through all of Griffith's for Antrim page by page trying to work out where some of Hallidays might have been living - I still don't quite understand why the children were all born in Ballycarry when their parents lived in Carrickfergus.

I've not encountered the indexing you mention, other than search by individual and I thought a more general search might be helpful, if daunting.


Offline aghadowey

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Re: How useful is Griffith's Valuation?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 29 September 21 19:05 BST (UK) »
What makes you think "the children were all born in Ballycarry when their parents lived in Carrickfergus"?
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Offline dave62448

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Re: How useful is Griffith's Valuation?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 29 September 21 20:45 BST (UK) »
What makes you think "the children were all born in Ballycarry when their parents lived in Carrickfergus"?

Well John Halliday and Christina lived in a house in Taylor's Row in Carrickfergus. Their children's birth certificates vary from Ballystrudder to Whitehead to Templecorran to Islandmagee but all the "records" listings say Ballycarry. I've learnt that Irish place names vary according to who was speaking or other things. It's most mysterious as a process. I only saw my grandfather John Jr once as a small child and I have no memory of it, but working this out has become quite important to me.

Am I missing something? All the searching through Griffith's is to give me a better idea of the milieu in which they lived.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: How useful is Griffith's Valuation?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 29 September 21 21:22 BST (UK) »
I think you are confused about Irish places and their divisions in various records.

The marriage of John Halliday & Christina (McCord) Rice was 1869-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1869/11426/8197374.pdf

I found the following children in civil records-
1.   Agnes (1870 Ballystrudder, Ballycarry subdistrict, Larne district)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03339/2223848.pdf
2.   Daughter (1872 Ballystrudder)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03252/2191924.pdf
3.   Sarah Hutchinson (1873 Ballystrudder)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03201/2173933.pdf
4.   Samuel (1875 Ballystrudder)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03106/2139052.pdf
5.   Mary (1877 Woodburn, Carrickfergus)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/03002/2100232.pdf
6.   John (1879 Middle Division, Carrickfergus)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02900/2062490.pdf
7.   Martha (1882 Duncrue, Carrickfergus)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1882/02775/2018728.pdf (father dec.)

John had died in 1881 at Duncrue-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06424/4845800.pdf

All the civil records list townland as place of event & at the top of the page you will see the district (Larne) and subdistrict (Ballycarry)
You can put 'Larne' into this site under registration district to see map showing Larne & its Subdistricts (dispensary districts).
https://www.swilson.info/regdistmap.php
When using Irish Genealogy to search for vital records the information will be listed under the registration district (Larne).

Have you used the Valuation Revision books to trace where the Hallidays lived? they go from the printed version of Griffiths until c1930 and available (free) on PRONI-
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/information-and-services/search-archives-online/valuation-revision-books
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline dave62448

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Re: How useful is Griffith's Valuation?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 29 September 21 21:58 BST (UK) »
Thank you for all these links! I'm most grateful. It took me years to sort the births out and in a matter of a few hours you have them all there! As you note several were at Ballycarry and they were listed as living at Ballystrudder, but in Griffiths (I believe in 1862) they were already living in Carrickfergus. Hence my confusion. It appears from other sources that John Halliday had his shoe and boot making business in Belfast as of 1872 at 72 Cromac Street and possibly earlier at 56 Stanfield Street so evidently he was commuting.

Now in 1852 a Samuel Halliday was a bootmaker at 54 Verner Street Belfast. (Samuel was John's father's name - though the wedding of John & Christine says he was a farmer.)
I can't thank you enough for your kind replies.

It's interesting that John Sr was 72 at his death in 1881 and his daughter Martha wasn't yet born.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: How useful is Griffith's Valuation?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 29 September 21 22:18 BST (UK) »
None of the births I linked took place in Ballycarry (I listed the townlands as on the registrations). I included the subdistrict so you could see that Ballycarry is the subdistrict and not the actual place of birth.

Are you absolutely sure the shoemaker John Halliday in Cromac St. is the same as yours?
1890 directory still lists John Halliday, shoemaker, at 72 Cromac St.-
https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ccomplete1890.htm
By 1901 directory it's S. Halliday, shoemaker, at the same address-
https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ccomplete1901_3.htm

Northern Whig, 17 Apr.1878: HALLIDAY—April 16, Margaret Halliday. The remains of beloved daughter will be removed from _ residence, 72, Cromac Street, for interment in Comber Burying-ground, on to-morrow (Thursday), two o’clock. Friends will please accept this intimation.
From reference to burial at Comber it seems to indicate the family has a previous connection there.
Death registration gives informant as her father Samuel Halliday of 40 Elm St.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1878/020514/7198894.pdf
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline dave62448

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Re: How useful is Griffith's Valuation?
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 29 September 21 22:42 BST (UK) »
None of the births I linked took place in Ballycarry (I listed the townlands as on the registrations). I included the subdistrict so you could see that Ballycarry is the subdistrict and not the actual place of birth.

Are you absolutely sure the shoemaker John Halliday in Cromac St. is the same as yours?
1890 directory still lists John Halliday, shoemaker, at 72 Cromac St.-
https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ccomplete1890.htm
By 1901 directory it's S. Halliday, shoemaker, at the same address-
https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ccomplete1901_3.htm

Northern Whig, 17 Apr.1878: HALLIDAY—April 16, Margaret Halliday. The remains of beloved daughter will be removed from _ residence, 72, Cromac Street, for interment in Comber Burying-ground, on to-morrow (Thursday), two o’clock. Friends will please accept this intimation.
From reference to burial at Comber it seems to indicate the family has a previous connection there.
Death registration gives informant as her father Samuel Halliday of 40 Elm St.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1878/020514/7198894.pdf

No I'm not 100% sure it's the same bootmaker, though it wouldn't be unusual for his son Samuel to have done the same work at that address until 1918.

That Margaret record is however, very interesting.