Common names like Smith

[Melonza]

Hi everyone,
I started researching my family tree this year and so far have information for great grandparents and some great great grandparents. It’s going ok so far and I’ve been lucky that on my fathers side, my grand parents kept certificates, photos, newspaper cuttings, orders of service etc. However there is limited information on my mother’s side and to add to the challenge, the paternal line is Smith.

My great grandfather Harry and my great grand mother Mary were both married previously and had at least one child each in first marriage. We knew that Harry and Mary were linked from at least the early  1920s as that when my grandfather was born. After a lot of digging, I did manage to find a record of their marriage in 1941 and ordered a certificate. This told me they were both widowed and also gave me Harry’s father name and occupation which was very exciting! Harry’s father is Joseph Smith and was a licensed victualler. I’m really struggling to find the right records for Harry and Joseph. It’s a real challenge with such common first and last names. I have little information about either. I have a birthday for Harry from 1939 register and estimated year of death, as we know he died a couple of years after Mary. I’m beginning to think that a) Harry and Joseph may have been middle names b) they were not born in Birmingham as assumed - especially if Joseph was in the Pub/Inn trade.

Can anyone give any pointers on how to approach this search with many results and limited knowledge to whittle them down?

Many thanks,
Mel
I’m beginning to think

[brigidmac]

with the smith surname you have to make note of as many clues as you can

record the addresses given on marriage certificate and names of witnesses..may turn out to be a relative even if surname is different

who else is with Harry on yhe 1939 register ?

is the address the same as on the marriage ?

did they have your grandfather 21 years before they married ?

were there any obituaries ?

i have smith on my mothers side ..to make it worth she married a jones and both had previous marriages . I had quite a good paper trail, elders with good memoriesand now dna to confirm the trail

good luck
if you give the town and the details you do have about joseph the victualler approx birth date maybe some rootschat detectives could find pub connected to him /

good luck

[iluleah]

Hi and welcome to  rootschat

I can remeber when I first started I avoided the 'Smith' line in my family, however the process is the same, you look for primary records like birth, baptism, marriage, death, burials, tax, court, Wills and secondary records to cross reference, like census plus other information you can find ( which might or might not be for the correct 'Smith')

As you say he was in the pub trade/Birmingham connection I looked at that, if you go down to the BLACK HORSE HOTEL 'a' Joseph Smith managed that and there are lots of additional clues. He may not be your Joseph Smith however worth a look  file:///C:/Users/Admin/AppData/Local/Temp/HBCP%20Halesowen%20Working%20File-1.pdf
If you can't connect with above google " HBCP Halesowen Working File - Hitchmough's Black Country Pubs"

BLACK HORSE
3, Illey Lane, (Upper) Illey, HALESOWEN
Licencees
Joseph Smith   (1881 – [1912]
Edward Smith   [ date ?]

[Melonza]

Thank you Brigidmac.
Thats very helpful advice.

I think the other challenge is working full time - I wish I could swap to this being my full time job!

The area is Birmingham. My grandfather Reginald was definitely born here but I don’t have any evidence that Harry or Joseph were born here - just that Harry did live, marry and die here. The rest is assumptions.
My guesstimate for Joseph’s birth is 1845 +/- 5-10yrs which I know is a huge scope.

I’m ok on Mary’s side - have previous marriage, children and parents, but nothing for Harry. Harry and Mary are listed at the same address - 23 Buxton Rd for 1939 reg and their marriage in 1941.
I got Harry’s birthday from the 1939 - 17 Mar 1880

However, Marys first child with first husband Alfred Wilson was born 1909. Reginald was born in 1921. We assumed Alfred died/missing in WW1 but then we found out through records that Reginalds sister Mollie born 1923 was registered to Alfred, not Harry. The subsequent 2 children were registered to Harry and I believe Mollie was brought up as a Smith, although registered Wilson.

I have nothing on Harry’s first marriage. We’re fairly sure there was a son born around 1910-1915 but no name for son or wife.

I will keep going but I’m going to need to start a file or scrap book!

[Melonza]

Thanks Iluleah!
I’ll have take soon time to look through these documents. At first glance the Black Horse doesn’t have Harry listed - or a son- on 1881/1891/1901 census.

I may have to further afield.

[emeltom]

You think you have problems with one Smith. My grandmother was a Smith who married a Smith. To make it worse her father was John Smith from Sunderland. There are too many John Smiths born Sunderland to mention! I found him though, eventually.

[iluleah]

Another Joseph Smith publican https://pubwiki.co.uk/Warwickshire/BirminghamR/RedHouse.shtml

[stewpot72]

I couldn't resist a hopefully humorous side note when I read this thread. Many years ago I was introduced to a chap named Jones and remarked "Ah another common surname". To which he replied "It's not common, it's popular". The rest of the day went so well after that :-)
Good Luck
Stewpot Smith

[MaureeninNY]

I think the other challenge is working full time - I wish I could swap to this being my full time job!
<snipped>
I will keep going but I’m going to need to start a file or scrap book!

 

Hi Mel,

Welcome home!

Kind regards,
Maureen (nee SMITH)