Author Topic: Can anybody throw any light on this unidentified mounted (WWI?) soldier ?  (Read 1554 times)

Offline kob3203

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Tracing Welsh/Irish roots from Asia with no money!
    • View Profile
Re: Can anybody throw any light on this unidentified mounted (WWI?) soldier ?
« Reply #63 on: Thursday 14 October 21 04:49 BST (UK) »
I am inclined to think the larger domed building looks like Hagia Sophia, except since the photo is so very faded, I am not sure if I can see the high towering minarets that are situated beside it. Anyway the shape of the dome reminds me of architecture of the Ottoman empire.

Has a weapon expert given you a date for that rifle? That might also be helpful to know.

While googling Hagia Sophia to find more photos I came across the attached picture from the Wikimedia commons - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mesjid-Aya-Sofia-Salonika.jp of the Hagia Sophia, Thessaloniki. There was apparently a fire in 1890 and the dome was damaged, but later restored - not sure when.

Google maps link to location - from which I doubt that it would be visible from any army camp, unless the city was far smaller back then with the church on the outskirts. (If you go to google street view and move out of the city then the landsacape is much greener and tree-covered than I expected, with low hills)

The other examples of Byzantine churches converted to mosques all appear to be in Istanbul itself, which I think makes them even less likely.

There were apparently a few Byzantine Eastern Orthodox churches (which is where the domes come from) that were converted to mosques (which is when the minarets were added) when the Ottomans took over, Hagia Sophia in Istanbul being the largest and most well known.

Most intriguing and unexpected, as this could put us back in the Salonika Campaign - if the building is a Byzantine church/mosque. But I have my doubts.

I'm still trying to get a better copy of the photo I posted, since the JPG artefacts are quite bad. I've attached a screenshot from GIMP with the upper half being a crop from the photo I posted and the lower half being the same thing but with the levels stretched, making the 8x8 pixel JPG artefacts more obvious.
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline kob3203

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Tracing Welsh/Irish roots from Asia with no money!
    • View Profile
Re: Can anybody throw any light on this unidentified mounted (WWI?) soldier ?
« Reply #64 on: Thursday 14 October 21 05:22 BST (UK) »
Just came across another interesting photo, third photo down on the right here https://www.theculturalexperience.com/tours/salonika-battlefield-tour/

To me that bears some resmblance to the small building on the horizon near the horseman's rifle muzzle (cropped reduced version attached fror comparison)
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline tonepad

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anybody throw any light on this unidentified mounted (WWI?) soldier ?
« Reply #65 on: Thursday 14 October 21 06:20 BST (UK) »
Dove Cote, Llantwit Major, The Vale of Glamorgan, Great Britain

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/379050


Tony
Aucock/Aukett~Kent/Sussex, Bing~Kent, Broadway~Oxfordshire, Danks~Warwickshire, Fenn~Kent/Norfolk, Goatham~Kent, Hunt~Kent, Parker~Middlesex, Sellers~Kent/Yorkshire, Sladden~Kent, Wright~Kent/Essex


Offline kob3203

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Tracing Welsh/Irish roots from Asia with no money!
    • View Profile
Re: Can anybody throw any light on this unidentified mounted (WWI?) soldier ?
« Reply #66 on: Thursday 14 October 21 13:42 BST (UK) »
It definitely looks like a medieval dovecote, of which there are a fair few around the UK - but are you suggesting this specific one ?

I found another photo of it from a different location -  https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/13428. Click 'View Map' (you may need to scroll up first) and select '2nd edition 1899-1908'. Although the fields and slope do seem to be a fairly good match for the photo, the map shows several buildings which would be in the photo.

How about Penally camp, further west along the coast near Tenby  - the photo on page 24 of this PDF https://dyfedarchaeology.org.uk/ww1/firstworldwarmilitarisedlandscapes2015.pdf has a building on the horizon top left that looks quite similar, and the terrain seems to match too.

Edited to add: the building in the Penally photo seems to be a watchtower, which shows up on maps  between at least 1892 and 1938 (You can scroll all the way over to Tenby on the maps from the first link in this post). The only other picture I've found so far that might be this watchtower is an 1865 amateur watercolour https://www.watercolourworld.org/painting/tenby-penally-tww0261f9.

N.B. After looking through the PDF a bit more thoroughly the chaps digging trenches are probably infantry from Penally camp during WWI, when Yeomanry Field was used for trench-digging practice, so no tented Yeomanry camp any more.
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline kob3203

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Tracing Welsh/Irish roots from Asia with no money!
    • View Profile
Re: Can anybody throw any light on this unidentified mounted (WWI?) soldier ?
« Reply #67 on: Thursday 14 October 21 13:56 BST (UK) »
Can't see a tower in either of these photos.

Pembroke/Glamorgan Yeomanry (I assume - the cap badge seems right) at Penally - https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/1678781. The user that uploaded the photo is 'Penally History Group', and they've uploaded many other photos which I need to look through.

Pembroke Yeomanry (it says) at Penally - https://www.jbarchive.co.uk/wl-284---pembroke-yeomanry-at-penally-camp-tenby-wales-64566-p.asp. Some men in vest/waistcoat and shirtsleeves, two wearing forage caps, one with a slouch hat, one with a flat cap. One chap wearing a neckerchief, another drying/cleaning his hands on a cloth. Two clearly in civilian clothes. Looking again the chaps in vests/waistcoats and forage cap/peaked cap are actually in civilian clothes, except for the headgear.

Edited to add: larger version of the second found from Penally History Group https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/1679171
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline kob3203

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Tracing Welsh/Irish roots from Asia with no money!
    • View Profile
Re: Can anybody throw any light on this unidentified mounted (WWI?) soldier ?
« Reply #68 on: Thursday 14 October 21 17:32 BST (UK) »
I'm fairly sure that the Byzantine church/mosque is simply damage to and fading of the photo combined with pareidolia. I don't think there's anything on the horizon to the left except fields and hedges and trees and more fields and hedges and trees.

I was persuaded by the chap floating in the air on the far right - white shirt, white trousers, black hair. Do you see him ? Once you do he just won't go away !  :D
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline kob3203

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Tracing Welsh/Irish roots from Asia with no money!
    • View Profile
Re: Can anybody throw any light on this unidentified mounted (WWI?) soldier ?
« Reply #69 on: Thursday 14 October 21 17:46 BST (UK) »
I found a larger version of the photo of the tower in Penally that I mentioned in reply 66 - it's on the front page of this PDF - https://coflein.gov.uk/media/85/397/dat22_012.pdf

Edited to add: even larger version of this photo, but with the far left hand side cropped out, from Penally History Group here https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/1678701

I've attached a small section from the top left of the photo just to show the structure along with part of our photo showing the building on the horizon for comparison.

Note: the text on page 24 of the PDF mentioned in reply 66 says "PENALLY YEOMANRY FIELD CAMP AND PRACTICE TRENCHES PRN 107820 - Yeomanry field was the site of a tented camp for many years prior to the First World War, however photographic evidence [i.e. the photo I found in the PDF] also shows that the site was used during the war to construct practice trenches"

So my best guess now is that the photo I posted shows soldiers from the Pembroke Yeomanry (possibly Glamorgan Yeomanry) at the tented camp in Yeomanry field at Penally some time before, or in the early stages of, WWI.
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline kob3203

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Tracing Welsh/Irish roots from Asia with no money!
    • View Profile
Re: Can anybody throw any light on this unidentified mounted (WWI?) soldier ?
« Reply #70 on: Friday 15 October 21 04:28 BST (UK) »
Possibly the same building above the reverend's head in the lower (sideways) photo here https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/1678771

View of tented camp for infantry on Holloway Field (aka Volunteer Field, Poppy Field - and I assume Yeomanry Field prior to WWI) https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/1675371. Lots of buildings but no tower, so I assume it's either off to the left or right.
(Note: Comparing the map of the location of Yeomanry Field  on p24 of the first PDF to the earlier maps via the view map link mentioned in reply 66 Yeomanry field is near Holloway farm)

I was planning to ask the Penally History Group what they think - their user page https://www.peoplescollection.wales/users/57226 links to their website https://penallyhistorygroup.wordpress.com/ which says "Drop us an email to get in touch!" - but gives no email address !
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline kob3203

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Tracing Welsh/Irish roots from Asia with no money!
    • View Profile
Re: Can anybody throw any light on this unidentified mounted (WWI?) soldier ?
« Reply #71 on: Friday 15 October 21 07:48 BST (UK) »
I've just posted a new topic on the Pembrokeshire board to hopefully get some local knowledge, and with luck a member of the Penally History Group.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=854228
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)