Author Topic: Swan Hotel in Birmingham  (Read 368 times)

Offline Catherine61

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Re: Swan Hotel in Birmingham
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 13 October 21 05:57 BST (UK) »
Thanks Maddy52 and Jool - I will also bookmark this resource - very useful!

So William (1734-1779) and Mary, had 8 children, with the eldest Thomas (b. 1754), who married Sarah Heath. My direct descend was the 8th child James (1768-1853) - convict - sentenced to transportation for stealing a hat. (First Kiss in Australia).

Thomas and Sarah had a son, William Daniel Kiss - born Kenilworth 1776 - the solicitor.

So in regard to the 1791 'William Kifs, chaser and buckle maker, about 5 feet 8 inches high, about 28 years old, slender made, brown hair tied, fresh complexion, two or three scars on his forehead; supposed to be in London'...this could be William (1763-1836). He married Mary Hadnot in 1789, Shoreditch, London.

Could he have been on the run for 2yrs? Living with 2 families for a while? Need to find 1st marriage cert to prove this.
Thoughts?

Offline maddys52

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Re: Swan Hotel in Birmingham
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 14 October 21 03:42 BST (UK) »
That's good to know where William Daniel fits in.  :)

Need to find 1st marriage cert to prove this.


Do you want the marriage cert of William KISS and Mary HADNOT? It's on Ancestry - 17 Aug 1789 at St Leonard, Shoreditch. It doesn't say where William is from, though it does say Mary is otp, William signs, Mary with "x". Witnesses are Henry CLAYTON ("x") and John BAT???.

There is also a baptism in Birmingham of a Thomas KISS on 17 Jun 1791, son of William and Margaret. So there must be another William KISS, though I can't see any other baptisms or a marriage for this couple.  :-\

It seems strange to me that if your William and Mary married in Shoreditch and had their children there, that she would be asking for support from Birmingham Workhouse.

Offline hanes teulu

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Re: Swan Hotel in Birmingham
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 14 October 21 09:21 BST (UK) »
There's a baptism of Thomas Hadnot Kiss, Holborn, 23 Feb 1791, Holborn, parents William and Mary.
Seems unlikely this would be the family involved with the Birmingham workhouse in Sep 1791.

More likely candidates are the William/Margaret combination with Thomas bap 17 Jun 1791. But who was this William?

Post amended - Benjamin Hadnot Kiss was baptised Holborn 23 Apr 1797.

   
S. Wales, Somerset, Devon - Oxenham

Aberavon - Hopkin/s, Jenkins, Thomas
St. Brides/Wick - Jenkins
Llanblethian -  Price
Abergwynfi -  Han(d)ford
Pontardawe -  Lewis.


Offline hanes teulu

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Re: Swan Hotel in Birmingham
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 14 October 21 10:19 BST (UK) »
FindMyPast burial (transcript)

William Kiss, bur. 2 May 1836, residence St Dunstan in the West, parish St Andrew Holborn. Age at death, 73, puts YoB around 1763.

Cannot spot a William Kiss death/burial that might "fit" the William linked with Margaret and son Thomas.
S. Wales, Somerset, Devon - Oxenham

Aberavon - Hopkin/s, Jenkins, Thomas
St. Brides/Wick - Jenkins
Llanblethian -  Price
Abergwynfi -  Han(d)ford
Pontardawe -  Lewis.

Offline Catherine61

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Re: Swan Hotel in Birmingham
« Reply #22 on: Monday 18 October 21 08:20 BST (UK) »
Thanks maddys52, I agree:
It seems strange to me that if your William and Mary married in Shoreditch and had their children there, that she would be asking for support from Birmingham Workhouse.

Thanks hanes teulu, I also agree:
Cannot spot a William Kiss death/burial that might "fit" the William linked with Margaret and son Thomas.

A scandalous thought, could be William, had women in 2 towns, both had sons which they called Thomas (both born in 1791), but then William leaves Margaret in Birmingham for Mary in Holborn??? Marriage cert with Mary, states him as bachelor. Maybe he never married Margaret.

Maybe we'll never know. Thanks for your help

Offline hanes teulu

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Re: Swan Hotel in Birmingham
« Reply #23 on: Monday 18 October 21 10:00 BST (UK) »

A scandalous thought, could be William, had women in 2 towns, both had sons which they called Thomas (both born in 1791), but then William leaves Margaret in Birmingham for Mary in Holborn??? Marriage cert with Mary, states him as bachelor. Maybe he never married Margaret.

I have been thinking just that. Cannot find a post 1791 marriage/death for a Margaret Kiss. There is an 1806 death for a Thomas Kiss, Birmingham, age not recorded, who might be the Thomas born to William/Margaret.   
S. Wales, Somerset, Devon - Oxenham

Aberavon - Hopkin/s, Jenkins, Thomas
St. Brides/Wick - Jenkins
Llanblethian -  Price
Abergwynfi -  Han(d)ford
Pontardawe -  Lewis.