Author Topic: Martin Curran b.1799 co Kerry+ Mary Anne Cummins b.1820 Dublin  (Read 316 times)

Offline RickyJack

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Martin Curran b.1799 co Kerry+ Mary Anne Cummins b.1820 Dublin
« on: Tuesday 12 October 21 06:09 BST (UK) »
Hi to the group.
Looking for two wives of Martin Curran.. born 1799 county Kerry Ireland

There are two Family trees on Ancestry which say Martin Curran son of Martin and Joanne Rowley born county Kerry Ireland died 1866 Tumut Australia.true to Family stories.
Family stories say 1826 farmers Labourer 24 March 1826 on the way to NSW Australia on the ship Boyne...all Australian details well known, however he left behind a wife and 3 kids.
In Australia in 1836 he married Mary Anne Cummins [Commyns] born 1820 Dublin. died 1889 Tumut, NSW
Mary Anne was a bounty Immigrant arriving at the age of 15-16 arrived Sydney on the "Duchess of North" ship 27 Feb 1835 
Mary Annes father was James Cummins her Mother is unknown

So two brickwalls a marriage, wife and 3 kids before 1826,  and 2nd wifes Mum in Dublin.  
I fell for the trap..sometimes Rowley can also mean Reilly and Reily
Tips and suggestions very welcome..Thankyou
Cheers Rick in Australia

Offline majm

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Re: Martin Curran b.1799 co Kerry+ Mary Anne Cummins b.1820 Dublin
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 12 October 21 08:03 BST (UK) »
Ricky,  I have not looked at the Ancestry Trees, but I have used the usual reliable NSW State Archives indexes, and my own offline resources for some actual details rather than relying on submitted trees ... so I share the following - particularly to help the RChatters with focus on Kerry ...

CURRANE is how Martin's surname is indexed at the NSW Archives.  There is NO marriage or death indexed at NSW BDM under that spelling.  There are other chaps with that spelling and noted as from Kerry arriving under sentence of 7 or more years transportation.   The Certificate of Freedom means he had completed his sentence and was free to quit NSW.  It was issued in 1833, so several years before a chap named Martin CURRAN married in NSW.   


28 October 1826 Shipís Muster and Convict Indent,
Martin CURRANE, aged 27 years, born Kerry, Ireland, Roman Catholic, Farmerís Labourer, a married man with 3 children.  Tried 24 March 1826 at Kerry, Cow Stealing.  Sentenced to Seven years transportation.  Embarked from England.  Arrived per Boyne 28 Oct 1826 and assigned to John LOWE at Prospect (Central Cumberland, Parramatta, NSW).

1829
Ticket of Leave, 29/386,  Martin CURRANE, per Boyne 1826, allowed to remain in the district of Parramatta. https://records-primo.hosted.exlibrisgroup.com/permalink/f/1e5kcq1/INDEX229675

19 August 1833
Certificate of Freedom  33/0927, Martin CURRANE, per Boyne, 1826, TL 29/386
https://records-primo.hosted.exlibrisgroup.com/permalink/f/1e5kcq1/INDEX229674

JM

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Offline majm

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Re: Martin Curran b.1799 co Kerry+ Mary Anne Cummins b.1820 Dublin
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 12 October 21 08:38 BST (UK) »
Hi to the group.
Looking for two wives of Martin Curran.. born 1799 county Kerry Ireland

There are two Family trees on Ancestry which say Martin Curran son of Martin and Joanne Rowley born county Kerry Ireland died 1866 Tumut Australia.true to Family stories.
Family stories say 1826 farmers Labourer 24 March 1826 on the way to NSW Australia on the ship Boyne...all Australian details well known, however he left behind a wife and 3 kids.
In Australia in 1836 he married Mary Anne Cummins [Commyns] born 1820 Dublin. died 1889 Tumut, NSW
Mary Anne was a bounty Immigrant arriving at the age of 15-16 arrived Sydney on the "Duchess of North" ship 27 Feb 1835
Mary Annes father was James Cummins her Mother is unknown

So two brickwalls a marriage, wife and 3 kids before 1826,  and 2nd wifes Mum in Dublin. 
I fell for the trap..sometimes Rowley can also mean Reilly and Reily
Tips and suggestions very welcome..Thankyou
Cheers Rick in Australia

Ricky,  please ask the people you are helping on this occasion to check their records carefully.  The name of the ship arriving Sydney New South Wales 27 February 1835 was NOT The Duchess of the North.

Perhaps they meant the vessel the Duchess of Northumberland  It is noted at the following link :  https://www.rushen.com.au/bounty-emigration-ships 

JM
 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline greeneyedgirl

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Re: Martin Curran b.1799 co Kerry+ Mary Anne Cummins b.1820 Dublin
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 12 October 21 09:46 BST (UK) »
Hi, looked for records in Kerry for Martin Curran but the only Martin I could locate was a Martin Curran married to Elizabeth Smyth. That's not to say it isn't him but I have located 7 births for them. Kerry records for Killorgin parish where he appears in other records has no parish registers online but does have records on irish genealogy. ie which I checked with no success on Martin or his parents. I found a marriage for a Martin Curran & Brigit Smyth but it's in Dublin. I did however find 3 birth records for Mary Ann Cummins. They are:
Births:
Mary Ann Cummins
Baptised: 6 Aug 1815 St Michan church
Parents: James Cummins/Catherine Flanagan

Mary A Cummins
Baptised: April 1820 St Catherine's
Parents: James Cummins/Mary Bartley

Mary Cummins
Baptised: August 1813
Parents: James Cummins/Anne

If you have anything else let me know, I will check further, Kim

Offline RickyJack

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Re: Martin Curran b.1799 co Kerry+ Mary Anne Cummins b.1820 Dublin
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 13 October 21 01:30 BST (UK) »
Hi and Thankyou,

I think you are on the money with James Cummin and Mary Bartley. there seems to be a connection with St Catherine Church Dublin
No evidence to support this as yet but from the one ancestry tree it goes like this
1/ Martin Currin born 1740
  married 
   Eleonor
     had issue
    2/  Martin Currin b 1779 did he marry Joanna Rowley or Reilly
      had issue
       3/ Martin Currin b.1799 born Kerry died Australia....NB looking for Irish Wife and 3 kids before 1826

below attached is a  Bap of Martin 8 December 1779...Ive enclosed does the surname look like Curr-e-n.
I cant read the letters under neath..now could Dunne and Anne Reilly be the parents of Eleanor



8 December 1779
Ireland
Baptised at Ballymore, Eustace, Wicklow & Kildare, Ireland. Diocese of Dublin. A son of Eleanor and Martin Curran

A Martin Currin and Eleonor Condran St Catherine Church Dublin bap 1786 daughter Sarah

At St Catherines Church Dublin, ...records only show Baps for these kids only
Martin Curren
married 
Elizabeth Smith
had issue
Martin Curren b. 3 Nov 1776
John Curren b. 1765
Esther Mary Curren b. 11 April 1779
George Curren b. 27 April 1783
Margaret Curren b. 19 Feb 1775

The Tasmanian Waltz, one forward two back
Thankyou Rick

 

Offline RickyJack

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Re: Martin Curran b.1799 co Kerry+ Mary Anne Cummins b.1820 Dublin
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 13 October 21 02:05 BST (UK) »
Thankyou JM,
I started off just going to ask if anyone can find the Irish wife and 3 kids. If Martin Curren was born 1799 and received his free trip to NSW in 1826, there is a small window to get married and have 3 kids, probably married at age 20,
anyway when I reread my information from the family, right on the bottom was didnt know the Aussie marriage to Mary Anne Cummins her Mums name, I hastily included as we're not needing any of the Australian info.
Nice to have it correct though.....well done

seems to be a popular surname
bap June 1820 Marg Cummin to Pat and Rosie Coffey
bap Jan 1821 Teresa Hughes to Thomas and Jane Cummins
bap sept 1821 Mary A Cummin Thomas and Sarah Lennan witness Christopher Cummin
Catherine Cummin appears as witness to a few 1820-1821
   

Offline majm

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Re: Martin Curran b.1799 co Kerry+ Mary Anne Cummins b.1820 Dublin
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 13 October 21 02:39 BST (UK) »
.....  Martin Curran.. born 1799 county Kerry Ireland

.....  son of Martin and Joanne Rowley born county Kerry Ireland died 1866 Tumut Australia.true to Family stories.......

The newspaper cutting for the 1866 death of a Martin CURRAN gives his age at death as 72.   So I wonder how the dots join back from that death to the convict arriving per the Boyne ....   Afterall, mid December 1866 - 72 =  born 1794. 
 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/144777959 Tumut & Adelong Times 13 Dec 1866.     
Obit..
On Monday last one of the oldest inhabitants of this district breathed his last at his residence, Adelong, at the ripe old age of 72. We allude to Mr Martin Curran  whose remains were interred on Wednesday in the Tumut cemetery  followed thither by a very long cortege of persons to whom the deceased was favourably known.


The NSW State Archives has that DD as 10 December 1866.  https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/ADLIB_RNSW112621410

Here is an online tree : https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Curran-2373

You may need to obtain an official transcript of the NSW BDM death registration to determine the origins of that chap, including responses re 'how long in the colony', where born, nee name of mother, and the like.  Civil Registration commenced in NSW in 1856, so you should NOT anticipate finding quality family history the document issued by NSW BDM re the 1836 marriage.  It will be scant on family history information and thus quite a number of inexperienced family history buffs may inadvertently speculate on their first generation of NSW ancestors in the decades between the arrival of the First Fleet (1788) and the commencement of the Gold Rushes (1851).   

Here is Tumut Cemetery info    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/208792021/martin-curran   Have you been in touch with the Descendants group who funded the memorial?  Perhaps you could encourage them to join Rootschat, they may well have the IRISH heritage sorted too.

I have just read your most recent post. 
Thankyou JM,
I started off just going to ask if anyone can find the Irish wife and 3 kids. If Martin Curren was born 1799 and received his free trip to NSW in 1826, there is a small window to get married and have 3 kids, probably married at age 20,
anyway when I reread my information from the family, right on the bottom was didnt know the Aussie marriage to Mary Anne Cummins her Mums name, I hastily included as we're not needing any of the Australian info.
Nice to have it correct though.....well done

seems to be a popular surname
bap June 1820 Marg Cummin to Pat and Rosie Coffey
bap Jan 1821 Teresa Hughes to Thomas and Jane Cummins
bap sept 1821 Mary A Cummin Thomas and Sarah Lennan witness Christopher Cummin
Catherine Cummin appears as witness to a few 1820-1821
   

I realised you noted that you did not need any NSW information, but as always, I am rather keen to learn how any information has been validated, particularly when it concerns people who arrived to NSW 1788 to mid 1851.   What people put on their own family history trees is speculation and unless it is supported by citing their primary and secondary sources it really is factoid even though may well be probable, plausible etc.    But surely among the goals of Rootschat is the co-operative efforts of all of us, as volunteers, avoiding duplicating, avoiding spreading twaddle, and providing pointers to towards providing the genuine enquirer with help to overcome gaps in their own research.   

Please do NOT link the Martin CURRANE, per the Boyne with the Martin CURRAN who died December 1866 without first actually researching and joining the dots between those two official sets of records.
 
JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
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Offline RickyJack

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Re: Martin Curran b.1799 co Kerry+ Mary Anne Cummins b.1820 Dublin
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 14 October 21 00:53 BST (UK) »
Thankyou Kim and JM
I think Ill mention to the Family that its going to be too hard as Im reading where in Kerry there are only parish records left and probably at the Village Church and we dont even know the Village...
Only thing I can think of is an Advertisement in a news paper county Kerry maybe..
Thankyou stay safe, Rick

Marriage records were recorded different ways over the years in Ireland. Starting in 1864, the government required civil registration of births, marriages and deaths for all of Ireland. These were organized by registration district and volume.

Prior to 1864, no civil registration was required for births or deaths, and only non-Catholic marriages were recorded starting in 1845. For Catholic baptisms and marriages prior to 1864 we are left researching local Catholic parish registers.

Offline majm

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Re: Martin Curran b.1799 co Kerry+ Mary Anne Cummins b.1820 Dublin
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 14 October 21 01:36 BST (UK) »
.....
Marriage records were recorded different ways over the years in Ireland. Starting in 1864, the government required civil registration of births, marriages and deaths for all of Ireland. These were organized by registration district and volume.

Prior to 1864, no civil registration was required for births or deaths, and only non-Catholic marriages were recorded starting in 1845. For Catholic baptisms and marriages prior to 1864 we are left researching local Catholic parish registers.

A likely source : https://sites.rootsweb.com/~irlker/marriage.html    May I again mention that your friend's Martin CURRAN who died in December 1866 was aged 72 at death, according to the newspaper cutting. The Martin CURRANE who received his Certificate of Freedom in 1833 was the chap from Kerry, with a wife and family there.  He was younger than your Martin CURRAN by about five years.  He was free to leave NSW after receiving his C of F (so he may have quit NSW several years before the Duchess of Northumberland arrived).    The NSW death cert for the 1866 death of a chap indexed as Martin CURRAN may well have noted his place of birth, and I suggest that an official transcription of that official document would be a good starting point for actual research.  NSW bdm records (so not the online index, but the actual record that the index is indexing), are often quite informative, and almost as detailed as say Scotland's, Victoria's etc.  So far more headings and information sought than the scant info on Tasmania's or England's or South Australia's.    I also urge you to encourage your friends to consider joining RChat.

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.