Author Topic: Dundee-Transvaal-Dundee  (Read 543 times)

Offline antiquesam

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Dundee-Transvaal-Dundee
« on: Sunday 17 October 21 16:21 BST (UK) »
Alexander Scrimgeour (a stonemason) and Jessie McDonald Malcolm (his wife) had a child in Dundee on 22/4/1890, then my grandfather was born on the 12/5/1894 in the Transvaal, followed by a daughter on 16/6/1897 in Dundee. I can't find either of them on a passenger list and wonder if anyone one can do better than me. I did broach this topic back in 2011 but thought things may have changed since then.
Coomber, Scrimgeour, Shiel, Thiel,

Offline TreeSpirit

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Re: Dundee-Transvaal-Dundee
« Reply #1 on: Monday 18 October 21 03:13 BST (UK) »
Unfortunately you did not give the complete family layout incl their ages, but Im wondering whether the following "Scrimgeour" (transcribed with an N)  family on the outward UK lists might stand a chance:

Departure: 21 Oct 1893, Southampton
Ship: Jelunga
Destination: Cape Town

Family members:
Mr mechanic - 35
Mrs  -29
Miss - 9
Mast - 6
Mast R - 5
Miss M -3

Offline antiquesam

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Re: Dundee-Transvaal-Dundee
« Reply #2 on: Monday 18 October 21 07:49 BST (UK) »
Thank you Tree Spirit. That could well be them as the childrens ages and initials fit, but the parents don't.
Alexander senior 1855
Jessie 1858
Catherine 1884
Alexander 1887
Richard 1888
Martha 1890
I assume they went to take advantage of the opportunities and returned to avoid the dangers of the Boer War.
Coomber, Scrimgeour, Shiel, Thiel,


Offline pampoen

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Re: Dundee-Transvaal-Dundee
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 24 October 21 10:47 BST (UK) »
Unfortunately these files can only be read at the archives.
DEPOT     KAB                                                                   
SOURCE    DOC                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 4/1/1153                                                             
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 5326                                                                 
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          MORTGAGE BOND. ALEXANDER SCRIMGEOUR.                                 
STARTING  19050000                                                             
ENDING    19050000   
There are more SCRIMGEOUR files at http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300ds?20211024114554B4D04563&PN=00000001
Austin, Ayling, Alborough, Bescoby, Cheal, Groom,Rathbone,Tarboton,Lyell and Smith.

Offline antiquesam

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Re: Dundee-Transvaal-Dundee
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 24 October 21 12:44 BST (UK) »
Thank you Pampeon. I see that is the only file within his time in South Africa as he was certainly in Dundee in 1890 and back by 1897. If he committed himself to repay any debt it ses likely he did " a moonlight flit".
Coomber, Scrimgeour, Shiel, Thiel,

Offline 3sillydogs

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Re: Dundee-Transvaal-Dundee
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 09 November 21 13:16 GMT (UK) »

I think this could be your man.  His wife is given as Jessie nee Malcolm, so it fits with your info.

It seems he died in Scotland, so must have returned there when he retired.  It gives his parents, wife and children's names. 

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSSD-N9N2-K?i=1678&cc=2520237&cat=188051

It is available on Family Search, but if you click through the images on the link it is the entire estate file. It appears he still had assets in South Africa, hence the Probate file registered in SA.

Paylet, Pallatt, Morris (Russia, UK) Burke, Hillery, Page, Rumsey, Stevens, Tyne/Thynne(UK)  Landman, van Rooyen, Tyne, Stevens, Rumsey, Visagie, Nell (South Africa)

Offline antiquesam

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Re: Dundee-Transvaal-Dundee
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 09 November 21 13:48 GMT (UK) »
Thank you 3sillydogs. I know he came back. He left Scotland sometime after April 1890 and had returned by June 1897. I know this because they had a child in those months, in Dundee, but they also had a child in the Transvaal in May1894. Finding exactly when they emigrated and returned has been my niggle since finding my grandfather was born in South Africa. The family are showing in the 1901 and the 1911 census as living in Dundee
Coomber, Scrimgeour, Shiel, Thiel,

Offline antiquesam

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Re: Dundee-Transvaal-Dundee
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 09 November 21 13:58 GMT (UK) »
My next question must be why he needed probat in South Africa when he had left nearly 40 years before. He presumably had left an estate there.
Coomber, Scrimgeour, Shiel, Thiel,

Offline 3sillydogs

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Re: Dundee-Transvaal-Dundee
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 10 November 21 08:53 GMT (UK) »


He did.  Had some property and shares.  It's all there in the documents in the estate file.
Paylet, Pallatt, Morris (Russia, UK) Burke, Hillery, Page, Rumsey, Stevens, Tyne/Thynne(UK)  Landman, van Rooyen, Tyne, Stevens, Rumsey, Visagie, Nell (South Africa)