Author Topic: Looking for information about John Keating born ca 1813 Ireland  (Read 328 times)

Offline Jang

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Looking for information about John Keating born ca 1813 Ireland
« on: Saturday 23 October 21 06:28 BST (UK) »
John Keating appears on the passenger list (dated 3 July 1850) for the "Jamestown" from Liverpool to New York. I'm not sure if this is the date the ship arrived as the information came from the Captain's declaration of passengers delivered to the Collector of Customs.

John was a Cabin passenger, aged 37, occupation surgeon, native place Ireland and recorded as dying on 25 June 1850. Am I safe in assuming he would have been buried at sea? Would there be a death certificate? Is there likely to be any other information about him in US records, in particular, what part of Ireland he came from?

Any leads most welcome :-)

Jan
England:
Durham: COULSON, FENWICK, HUNTER, LOWES, NAYLOR, ROBSON
Norfolk: DEWING, OUGHTON, TAYLOR,
Lancashire: TWEDDLE
Ireland: KEATING, KIRBY, Limerick; NELSON, Donegal
Scotland: BENNIE, Glasgow; COOK, Renfrewshire; HENDERSON, Alloa/Dundee; HUNTER, Glasgow; KIRKWOOD, Alloa; LAMONT, Dalkeith; YOUNG, Glasgow
Switzerland: VOSTI, DELUBINI
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Looking for information about John Keating born ca 1813 Ireland
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 23 October 21 15:28 BST (UK) »
Is he listed in with the other passengers and, if so, can you tell who he might have been travelling with? That is the only real lead I can think of. If he is listed separately at the end of the manifest, are there other Keatings or surgeons on board?
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Even if he had made it to the US, it would be unusual to find what part of Ireland he came from on a record. Sometimes a vital record of the person, a sibling,  or their children will mention it, but not very often. The best hope for someone in that era would be a write up in  a newspaper or a long obituary. Later the passenger records listed contact people in the country of origin, and naturalization records recorded more details for the place of birth, but 1850 is too early to hope for either.
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As for recording deaths of people who died at sea, I found these notes. So maybe he is recorded in the GRO for the Liverpool area.

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/birth-marriage-death-sea-or-abroad/

------
from
https://www.familytreemagazine.com/records/vital/now-what-relatives-who-died-at-sea/
Passengers who died en route were usually “buried” at sea, though sometimes (especially if the death occurred near the end of a voyage) bodies were kept on board and interred in a cemetery at the port of entry. In that case, you could find a gravestone and burial record.

As states began to require birth and death registration, they too included records of deaths on ships that arrived in their ports. So, someone who died en route to Baltimore, for example, might be found recorded in death records at Maryland’s state archives.

If the death occurred on a British-registered ship after the start of civil registration (July 1837 in England and Wales, January 1855 in Scotland, January 1864 in Ireland), a record had to be sent to the appropriate General Register Office (GRO) depending on the nationality or place of residence of the deceased’s father.
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from
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/How_to_Find_New_York_Death_Records
for New York State, from 1847 to 1850 records were required but unpopular. But  I would guess this didn't cover deaths at sea.


Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Looking for information about John Keating born ca 1813 Ireland
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 23 October 21 15:54 BST (UK) »
Is he listed in with the other passengers and, if so, can you tell who he might have been travelling with?

I found the manifest and see that he was listed with the cabin passengers and had a note in the far right column recording his date of death.
There is no reason to think he was travelling with the 3 Irish ladies listed on the lines below his. So no help there.
And if he died 8 days out, I would guess he was buried at sea.

link to manifest, then go 2 frames forward to find James Keating
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01r0h/


Offline Jang

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Re: Looking for information about John Keating born ca 1813 Ireland
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 24 October 21 01:21 BST (UK) »
oldohiohome, thanks for the references - very informative - but it looks like none apply in this case because he was Irish. I did look in the Irish newspapers to see if there was any mention of his death but nothing came up. I doubt there'd be any in the US newspapers but don't have access to these. Thanks for your help.

England:
Durham: COULSON, FENWICK, HUNTER, LOWES, NAYLOR, ROBSON
Norfolk: DEWING, OUGHTON, TAYLOR,
Lancashire: TWEDDLE
Ireland: KEATING, KIRBY, Limerick; NELSON, Donegal
Scotland: BENNIE, Glasgow; COOK, Renfrewshire; HENDERSON, Alloa/Dundee; HUNTER, Glasgow; KIRKWOOD, Alloa; LAMONT, Dalkeith; YOUNG, Glasgow
Switzerland: VOSTI, DELUBINI
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline shume

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Re: Looking for information about John Keating born ca 1813 Ireland
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 24 October 21 02:20 BST (UK) »
From Ancestry.com.au  here is his possible death registration but he is listed as John Keating on the manifest.
Name:   James Keating
Registration Quarter:   Jan-Feb-Mar
Death Registration Place:   Liverpool, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Death Date:   Mar 1850
Inferred Death Place:   Lancashire, United Kingdom
Volume:   20
Page:   219
HUME: Fermanagh, Donegal,Sligo,Australia
PASFIELD: Essex, London
SHAW/STANLEY: Co Waterford,Ireland, Australia

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Looking for information about John Keating born ca 1813 Ireland
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 24 October 21 13:11 BST (UK) »
he was Irish.
I should have read your original post more carefully. The manifest asks 'country to which he belongs' and he said Ireland. I was thinking he was an Irishman by nationality living in Liverpool.
I did look in the Irish newspapers to see if there was any mention of his death but nothing came up.
That was my next thought. Not many more places to look.

Offline Jang

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Re: Looking for information about John Keating born ca 1813 Ireland
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 26 October 21 04:29 BST (UK) »
Thanks Shume, I'll follow that one up. A pity the indexes don't give ages.

Edit to add - Just found his burial in St Martins in the Fields, Liverpool. He was 72, so I can rule him out.
England:
Durham: COULSON, FENWICK, HUNTER, LOWES, NAYLOR, ROBSON
Norfolk: DEWING, OUGHTON, TAYLOR,
Lancashire: TWEDDLE
Ireland: KEATING, KIRBY, Limerick; NELSON, Donegal
Scotland: BENNIE, Glasgow; COOK, Renfrewshire; HENDERSON, Alloa/Dundee; HUNTER, Glasgow; KIRKWOOD, Alloa; LAMONT, Dalkeith; YOUNG, Glasgow
Switzerland: VOSTI, DELUBINI
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline shume

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Re: Looking for information about John Keating born ca 1813 Ireland
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 27 October 21 11:19 BST (UK) »
Yes apologies I discovered this was the wrong Keating too late to modify. I also checked all the Irish papers online at the National Library of Australia but no luck.
Alumni Dublinesis has a John Keating who entered college 1832 father Walter from Meath. Generosus which I think means tuition for free. Doesn't mentioned degree but it was often MA and then they went elsewhere to study medicine. Another John Keating in 1826 was '"once a church deacon" so not him.
shume
HUME: Fermanagh, Donegal,Sligo,Australia
PASFIELD: Essex, London
SHAW/STANLEY: Co Waterford,Ireland, Australia

Offline Jang

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Re: Looking for information about John Keating born ca 1813 Ireland
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 28 October 21 00:35 BST (UK) »
Thanks for checking, shume. I think you might be on to something with the John son of Walter you found from Meath as I came across a Walter Keating born 1813 son of Walter from Meath in the Kings Inn Admissions Papers, possibly brothers, a case of one studying medicine and the other law.

I have the same thing in my own Keatings - one a doctor emigrating to Australia and the other a solicitor in Limerick. A third brother stayed on the farm there - it's the fourth brother John who disappeared without a trace. Of course he could have died, or perhaps followed in his brothers' footsteps, so when I came across the one who died at sea and the right age, he seemed a good fit. Guess I'll never know ...
England:
Durham: COULSON, FENWICK, HUNTER, LOWES, NAYLOR, ROBSON
Norfolk: DEWING, OUGHTON, TAYLOR,
Lancashire: TWEDDLE
Ireland: KEATING, KIRBY, Limerick; NELSON, Donegal
Scotland: BENNIE, Glasgow; COOK, Renfrewshire; HENDERSON, Alloa/Dundee; HUNTER, Glasgow; KIRKWOOD, Alloa; LAMONT, Dalkeith; YOUNG, Glasgow
Switzerland: VOSTI, DELUBINI
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk